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     | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 04:12 pm  To Christine or anyone else with Pertinant Information. Please add your two cents! Have anyone seen any post Chapter 7 scores? I recently saw a post on another message board with a guy claiming he had a 620 and he was three years out of chapter 7. What ranges have you seen for this situation? I am very curious about my scores now that I'm getting some progress on getting my reports corrected. I am in no position to fake out a mortgage broker and have no desire to play games with an auto dealership either. I hear that Qspace's new scores there offering are as about as close as you can get to FICO. I just finished urging people to stay away from them because there reports are so "basic" and in some cases misleading. I may have to give them a couple more dollars again just to see that score. I've read everything on this board about improving scores and I'm trying to make some plans on what to do in the near future. Ok I got 4 major CC's (3 Visa, one M.C.) so I got Credit Cards Covered. All are reporting on all three. Which department store cards are VERY easy to get? Below I will describe my situation so you guys can know what I'm up against. I bank with two credit unions. I have at least $1000 that I can do a secured loan with. I'm going to apply for that April. When I finish paying for that loan should I try it at the other credit union? That would be two more positives. April's about the time I should be finished in this first round of disputing. Filed Chapter 7 1/96 - Will drop 1/2006 Avg of 8 Derogs on CR will all drop by 1/2003 (most in 2002) NO CURRENT DEROGS Avg of 8 Positives on reports, some oldies but goodies and my post bankruptcy four CC's (all subprime) Providian -$6000 Aria -$1000 Capital One -$500 Direct Merchant Bank -$1000 partially secured but not reported secured. I have hardly any 12 month recent iquiries. QSPACE was a soft inquiry, Worthknowing was one too although I never saw the report with them since they couldn't identify me. I should have no problem with them identifiing me now since I know what information they are looking at. One day I'll go back and play around with them since it's free. My most recent inquiry was for this apartment I got this past December. They checked Transunion.. probably my best report but still highly flawed. Alot of things on this report failed to say included in bankruptcy. When they pulled the report it looked like I still owed over $6000. So was my score above there (rental agency) criterion or did someone see my bankruptcy and say "that stuff must be reported wrong". Makes me say Hmmm.. I was terrified to apply. I drove around in the country for the four hours I had to wait for a decision. I was living in a "not bad" but "less desireable" situation. I pay too too much for rent here and when my least is up I know I can find something bigger for less, but I don't want to go through the credit application again. I wont actually need credit until 5/2003, thats when I'll graduate and get a real job again. Tips, comments, questions anybody.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 09:12 pm Re Qspace credit scores: Fact: We know that FICO scores can't even get close to themselves and vary up to 24 points from one day to the next. http://www.bayhouse.com/FICOisFRAUD.html You'd have to run both scores on the same day, possibly at the same time. I don't know when and how frequently Equifax updates the reports, does anyone else know? How many people ran their Beacon and Qspace scores on the same day and what are the scores? I'd really like to see the data. Are there any URLs?
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 06:14 am Christine, Yeah I realize that FICO is no where close to being static. My problem lies is that I've NEVER seen a score. So if people are saying good ol' QSPACE has a close model then I could get an idea at a monetary cost(no inquiry, no being deceptive) What also puzzles me is that the few times I've applied for credit in the last year, year in a half, I've got it. The apartment, the Sprint phone and also a Bank of America (Corporate) MC card issued by my part time employer. Man I was scared to apply for it (they don't know about CH7) but it went through. It's not reporting, it was an Equifax Inquiry though. My approvals have been mind boggleing because it seems that I have been approved for things that others (without BNKRPCY but paid debts still reporting) are not getting approved for. All the while my reports still look like crap because many entries did not report "Included in BNKRPCY". Thus giving the appearance of outstanding debts. I do have history and some good history so that has to count for something too.} As everyone here I do want to improve my scores. They must be somewhere decent (for Ch 7) by my recent approval history. The apartment was my biggest test. These places out here don't just check your rental history (like in NY where mom lives) they look at the credit report like a potential creditor.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 10:47 am I'm glad to hear you got some approvals, just want to make sure that you understand that neither your apartment manager nor any bank looked at that Qspace number. BofA probably approved you because your employer is responsible for the bills. So if people are saying good ol' QSPACE has a close model ... And I want to make sure that everybody here understands that there is NOTHING good about Qspace, they haven't even bothered to respond to my E-mail over 2 weeks ago. Their reports are crap and so is that score. I really don't give a rat's ass what some unidentified clueless people are saying. I don't want myths and lies spread here. I can't keep people from wasting their money, but I'll make clear that it's not MY recommendation. Also, as far as increasing your scores, I'll post the link again: Improving your credit scores
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 04:53 pm Christine, "Good ol Qpace" was sarcasm. You should remember that I was one of the first people to say that Qspace was a piece of junk. I was having problems with them interpreting data from Equifax incorrectly, no addresss, no indepth information. I'm not recommending anyone do anything. I just want to get an idea of what range I'M in. Yes I've seen other post from REGULARS on message boards saying that there scores were generally within 25 points of actual FICO's. Thats not that accurate but thats good enough for me being I just want to know what ballpark I'm in. Yes I'm going to hate giving them 8 bucks again but there the best game in town right now. Duplicating the score to be somewhat accurate can't be that hard. If you pull enough reports with scores you can just get a feel of the value of everything then create you a model. Can't you tell a cheap suit from an Armani a block away. So again I'm not advocating the use of QSPACE, I think this is the worst report you can get actually. If you want a report write the big three and wait a few days. People in the company have been rejected for the BofA MC based on there credit histories. So that inquiry does mean something.
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 06:32 pm I know that you didn't like the Qspace report and that's why I really don't understand why you'd give them more money for nothing. Instead of demanding your money back, filing an FTC complaint, suing in Small Claims, at the very least telling people to stay away from Qspace, you'll give them MORE money. It absolutely floors me. THEN, you're talking about "REGULARS" at other boards. Are you really that gullible? The last week or so I've posted plenty on disinformation, propaganda and just plain stupidity (from Netkat to Net 1st and some "other" boards.) So I'm not going to bother to repeat myself. Get your Qspace score, print it, frame it, display it in your living room and worship it ... Please do me a personal favor and don't spread more misinformation HERE based on what some anonymous "REGULARS" at some other unidentified board say. Please keep that "THERE." Thank you!
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 11:14 am Christine, I'm not gullible and not offended by your comment. However I don't know you or anyone at "bayhouse" but based on previous post and threads I can make a decent assessment of who's being real. It's the same thing you did with NETKAT. Thats true for any board. Bayhouse isn't the only board out there with the good information. . Go to Wallmart and get some superasorbancy with wings, by the tone in some of your recent post I think you need them! . ;) Amistad D'
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| | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 03:58 pm That's the best you could come up with? Go to Wallmart and get some superasorbancy with wings, by the tone in some of your recent post I think you need them! . ;) I have learned a thousand times that when people don't have the brains to continue an argument, or there is simply nothing to argue and they know the other person is right, they'll do exactly what you just did here. Creditnet has a board you will enjoy: Tons of banners there for you to click on and your kind of people. Have a nice life!
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 03:41 am Christine, That statement was meant to make you grin, (as I did by the gullible one) not mad. I really appreciate Bayhouse for all the information that I've received here. You guys are a big part of my "active" credit rebulding. I won't mention that other place around here anymore. I did find out though that they licence that scoring methed 400-900 from another company. I do frequent Creditnet.com also. You can't beat there dissusion on subprime cards. Until visiting them I didn't know how easy it was to ask for lower APR's, and annual fee's. Some people are doing this 3 months after having cars I've had almost two years. In this credit building game everyone has something to offer. Sorry if I really pissed you off, because that was not my intent. Am
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 10:35 am Christine, I ran my husbands report with Qspace to see if the score was the same as his beacon we had just received from a lender She wouldn't give us a copy of the reports but she did let us see them. (Qspace pulled Equifax for us). The scores were quite different 636 = beacon, 535 = Qspace. It seemed to treat his collections as recent missed payments rather than old collection accounts. I came to this conclusion because of their suggestions One of the sugggestions of why a low score said - "in the last reported month you have missed at least 1 payment on 2 accounts." The only thing they could be talking about is the two collection accounts on the report. There are no other late payments for revolving, installment, charge or anything accounts. Which reminds me - one of those collection accounts should show paid BTW - We do have a ch 7 bk but it was back in 92. His other scores were 675 = Empirica and 530 = FICO I think his FICO is soooo low because he has a dispute over a car and they put cannot locate consumer on there. Which is BS because we've been negotiating a payoff. In fact we already have the dollar amt. just negotiating how it will be reported. sigh Kelly
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| | Saturday, February 03, 2001 - 10:59 am His other scores were 675 = Empirica and 530 = FICO Kelly, that's the biggest difference I've seen yet. Wished I had a prize  I really can't imagine that ONE item makes such huge difference. Usually scores are higher even right after the bankruptcy discharge and BEFORE the first disputes. I've never seen a "cannot locate consumer" notation, maybe that's worse than bankruptcy. It would be interesting to see the FICO after that's removed. And while the current FICO scoring system doesn't give points for paying collections, that MAY just change with the new NextGen scores. Much appreciate your posting the scores, it shows how important it is to check all three reports.
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 06:39 am I have seen FICO scores of several post bankruptcy people. Recently I pulled a report on someone from TUC. Just a little over two years prior to the report she had filed CH7BK. In addition she showed a mortgage from Chase with the comment added, "Legally paid in full for less than amount owed" that was about 4 years old. She had one legit active tradeline -- a mortgage with a very long on-time payment history. In addition she had a credit card from Bank of America that still showed open, no updates since 6/94 (it was actually closed, but that fact wasn't reported to the credit reporting agencies). She had three credit cards showing included in bankruptcy, $0 owed. Her score was 683.
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 10:39 am All these people with the low scores years after bankruptcy or serious delinquency either have NEW delinquencies, but more often there are NUMEROUS derogatory accounts that the scoring software concludes are RECENT due to missing dates or not reported as included in bankruptcy. I recently spent over TWO hours on a 3-report credit review and analysis and my client had already disputed several times. It's no wonder most people can't identify many problems on their reports, I rate it much more difficult than preparing taxes for a salaried person.
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 10:47 am Actually, credit reports with delinquencies are much more difficult to understand than a Sch C and depreciation, after all, the IRS tells you exactly what goes where and how to calculate. And all 1040's are exactly the same, unlike credit reports. That's why there's no credit report dispute software. You can't program for all these different report formats, you really have to sit there and use your brain to TRY to figure out what the data means.
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 12:09 pm Thanks Shylock, Now at least I have an understanding of where I could be. 2 years out of Chapter 7 and she has a 683 wow! 680 is suppose to be many lenders magic number. I'm very curious to where I'm at now!! Even more curious about where I'll be in a couple of years with no derogs except the Chapter 7. Subprime has been alright with Credit Cards because you can beat them at there own game by paying off quickly and rarely carrying a balence. Last week I received my year-end Direct Merchants Bank statement. I paid $11 in interest with about $4000 activity. I think thats rather well. Well you can't do this very effectivly with an auto loan or a mortgage. It sure would be nice to skip SUBPRIME on these type of loans. Look like I'll be able too. Am
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 02:18 pm and then there are bums like me who get Capital One unsecured Gold cards 5-and-a-half years post BK. Go figure! But then, they wanted a thousand dollars deposit a week later on a PCS phone (my wife required NO deposit) The games, the games...
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 04:06 am Dangelo: Now at least I have an understanding of where I could be. 2 years out of Chapter 7 and she has a 683 wow! 680 is suppose to be many lenders magic number. 683 was her Emperica (TU), which in all my years dealing with scoring, is always the most lenient of the three. Years back, before things got cleared up, I had a 675 Emperica, but my Experian(FICO) was a 549 and my Equifax(Beacon) was just over 600. Exact same data on each - lots of derogs. A 683 would only be good for a lender that ONLY checked TU. Coupled with low FICO and Beacon scores, you're out of the running for a mortgage at the prime level (they traditionally use the middle scores).
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 05:36 am John, "683 was her Emperica (TU), which in all my years dealing with scoring, is always the most lenient of the three. Years back, before things got cleared up, I had a 675 Emperica, but my Experian(FICO) was a 549 and my Equifax(Beacon) was just over 600. Exact same data on each - lots of derogs. " I didn't know that. Thanks. Still using her as a baseline since I've never seen any scores (for myself) I know what can be done. When they say a BNKRPCY (the public entry) hurts scores serverly, what is severe when we don't know the scores? Severe in my head was an automatic -300 points to get you somewhere in the 500 to low 600. That seems not to be true. Also time supposedly affects the effect it has on the score. Also all the other little nasties on your report because of the BNKRCPY. Well in January 2003 if I have no other derogs but the Chapter 7, my four subprimies CC with activity but no balences above (my gues of) 40%, a loan from my credit union paid perfectly and reporting 4/01 - 4/02, the other good accounts that survived the BNKRPCY (because they were paid) It looks like I could be above the magic number. I don't need any credit before January 2003. Maybe an I'll have inquiry for that CU loan (to rebuild(secured)) and maybe one for a Guarenteed Student Loan but thats it. Then I must factor in NEXTGEN. NEXTGEN would seem to help people like me from what I'm reading. One more plus in the pot? Guys I really don't want a 20% car loan or a 10% mortgage. Everything else can be bought cash or within a grace period.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 07:45 pm When I was sub-prime, had a BK, derogs and collections waiting to fall off (about 2 years to go on all), I went ahead and bought that truck ($20K) with $8K down and a 20% interest rate through Chrysler Credit. Kept it for a year, traded it in on a Gold-Key Lease (lowest interest rate) Chrysler 300M. Without that 20% loan proving that I could make payments, I'd never have gotten the car lease. BTW, leased a new truck 6 months later, too. Don't just site and hope a couple of credit cards are going to make you A+ paper. You've got to build that 24 month history!
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 03:38 am Perhaps someone could give me a ballpark figure to expect... I'm now 3 months out of ch7, and only 1 dispute away from having all three bureau reports cleaned up... Anyone know what the baseline score for that should be? (No derogs other than the ch7 and a 90+ that's 3 years old)... I'm considering trying to go buy a new car with a decent down payment, and am hoping to avoid the 20% mess... -Dave
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 03:52 am Can't help with "guessing" your score, but I can tell you this much: Even with 75% down, you're not going to get a car loan lower than (give or take a point) 20% being only 3 months out of a Chapter 7 bankruptcy discharge. 20% is not a 'mess'. It's the start of your rebuilding process. You have to crawl before you walk or run. If you're expecting near prime rates only months out of a CH 7, you're only fooling yourself.
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 05:33 am John, Thanks for the information. When you say 24 month history what exactly are you refering to? I will have 24 month on all the cards by the time the "bad boys" fall off. Then I have about 4-5 "goodies" on the report, that survived the bankruptcy. These goodies are from 92-95. So there old but I got some history, again I'm only 26. What I don't have is a car loan entry.. My highest credit would be the $6000 card. My next car I'm getting (in about two years) I'm going to pay cash for. I would take that large down payment and finance something (for the payment history) but I won't have a steady income right at the time when I get the car. I'll still be in school. John do you feel you would have gotten a better rate if the collections, and derogs were gone but the BK wasn't. Thats the position I should be in when I apply for my next auto-loan. I guess a significant down-payment like yours would help too. John did you get your Truck under one of those BK programs or did you just go to the dealership and pickout the truck you wanted then went from there?
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 06:08 am D T, I have a freind that filed Chapter 7 about 2 years ago and bought a car less than a month after her court date. She got 16%. Theres a reason why... She went to a major New car lot that had BK/Bad credit programs advertised in the newspaper. I was there when she got her car. She had previously called a voice response system and a salesman called back. After getting the approval to pull her reports and her explaining to him the whole situation he told her to some up there with x number of dollars (about 1K I think) and her discharge papers. When we got there he told her how much he'd be able to finance. I think it was 11K. He showed her this small lot with some late model used cars and told her to find one she liked. This lot had mainly had Chryslers, Geo's, and VW's. The Chryslers and Geo's were mostly base models with fairly low miles. The VW's generally had higher milage and significantly more expensive. She got a Plymoth Breeze. Looking at all those cars they all were "hard's sells" to conventional buyers. None of them were old enough to be bargin or even cash purchases. Hardly any of them had any bells and whistles that we like in cars. The VW's were sweet but they cost to dam much. She had a freind that filed chapter 7 a year prior and got a car also after about 1 month. Thats how she knew she could get the car. I've held out so long I don't want to go that route. I'd like to walk into a dealership pickout a reasonable car that I want and go from there. I just don't know if I'd get laughed out of the dealership with the Chapter 7 and no other derogs at all. Or maybe go to a B lender get the loan and then keep (20% or the like) for a year with plans to refinance.
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 06:25 am John, I think the 20% "mess" is easily avoidable. I'll let you know after the 15th how it goes. With a few still positive accounts with 24mo+ histories, and all other derogs included in bnk, as well as a whopping 5% DTI ratio, I think I'll be fine... I was thinking somewhere around the 15% mark. -Dave
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 09:17 am Talk with Arcadia Financial-17% 1 yr out of ch7, 500 down (I think--may have been zero, don't remember). 20 is too high
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 10:10 am >> John do you feel you would have gotten a >> better rate if the collections, and derogs >> were gone but the BK wasn't. Thats the >> position I should be in when I apply for my >> next auto-loan. I guess a significant down- >> payment like yours would help too. My guess is that it was primarily score driven. The BK hits the hardest. But if the lender sees a low score, a BK *and* another auto loan that was included in the BK, they tend to shy away. >> John did you get your Truck under one of those >> BK programs or did you just go to the >> dealership and pickout the truck you wanted >> then went from there? No BK program. Standard, off the lot, my choice from the local Dodge dealer. I actually CREATED a slightly higher interest rate by demanding that they ONLY go through Chrysler Credit Corporation. You see, Chrysler Credit is a much more reputable than ABC Finance Company (in the eyes of OTHER creditors). I wanted a nice, paid on time loan from Chrysler Credit. And I wanted the truck that *I* wanted, not the 'pick of the leftover litter' of rejected, base model or high mileage cars. I *could* have gone that route and shaved a few percentage points, but in the long run, my credit history was much BETTER with the loan that I specifically asked for. And I got the vehicle that *I* wanted, not one that some salesman was trying to pawn off on me because it was one of his 'BK Specials' (and I'm not referring to Burger King) John www.millcbs.com - Home of the Ultimate Creditor/CRA List
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| | Tuesday, February 06, 2001 - 11:04 am Senator, Thanks. Thats the information I need for my plan "b". Do you know of other B lenders? John, You know exactly what I'm talking about with the BK Specials. For my freind what she got was good considering she was less than 30 days pass the court date and she need transportation direly because she had little ones. Now personally I want a Honda, Nissan or Toyota. (The Reliable Big Three (GRIN)). I have an old well kept Acura now and I know the reliability and resale values of imports, especially Honda's. I couldn't see myself leaving the LOT with a car without PW/PDL/CC. Also for the first time I want some type of factory sliding roof! I'd also pay a higher APR for what I wanted. DTI should stay low for me because I've gotten so use to doing without, searching for bargins and making cash purchases. Thanks again John you've given me something to look at.
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 02:29 am Ford has a program depending on what state you live in. I posted earlier information about it roughly a year ago. do a search. you should get normal rates if it is available. i personally don't like ford as they have been jerks after the ch 7. they don't send a statement, they don't report payments. of course, they claim you can turn in the car at any time but nothing can be given in writing stating that they won't bomb your credit report or sue you saying that payments had reaffirmed the account. besides, their cars aren't the greatest--they're okay.
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| | Friday, February 16, 2001 - 09:04 am FYI, with my TU report cleaned up I've got a 572 (saw it on one of my auto loan credit reports).. that's with 5 extra inquiries (two from my credit union, and 3 from loan shopping)... so I'd guess I'm over 600 less than a month from my bnk discharge.. Not bad.
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