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     | Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 02:45 pm  you don't have to be poor, have any bad credit, or errors on your CRA's at all, for [UN] fair isaac and their modeling quackware to ruin your financial life and future-- being self employed and having most of your net worth tied up in real estate does the job oohhhhhhhhhhhh so nicely-  . in 1996, congress made modifications the federal fair lending laws to exempt credit scores from any and all due process-- consumer rights walk, as do corporate rights and investor inerests. the software pretended to be able to prevent fraud, default, and discrimination. what it actuall is doing is making fraud much easier to commit, rate of default to skyrocket, and hides discrimination completely under a veil of proprietary secrecy and bureaucracy. when discrimination does occur, no one has the means to detect it. your FICO score determines where you stand in the world, in an economic system where everything you do is based upon promises and expectations. the best of borrowers can get sick or die, go through an unexpected divorce, job loss, or disaster of one kind or another. the problem it has imposed upon me arise largely due to the fact that i am self employed, and don't qualify for much of any kind of a loan based upon the bottom line on my 1040. the mortgage industry developed no-income verification loans for this exact reason, and the rate is usually about half a point higher than a fully documented loan--- using programs such as these allowed me to buy my first house in 1994, and another in 1999. whatever your score may be, you're stuck with it, and judged by it. in my situation, credit denial is automatic and categorical below 680, approval is likewise at 680 or above. the system allows no provision for a banker or underwriter to step in and consider my application-- in fact, my credit history is never even seen by anybody-- it is run through a computer, score spit out, end of story. my attorneys are having the same problems putting the finger on the proper defendant to sue. worse, once the party/parties responsible are identified and named, the case would probably get thrown out pretty fast-- congress has specifically exempted [UN]fair isaac and their quackware from having to answer to anybody for what it does, how, and/or to whom. fannie mae and freddie mac bought into it, got government sanction for implementing FICO as an industry standard for borrower evaluation, and now every fannie mae/freddie mac loan in the country is underwritten, graded, and sold to huge institutional investors on what is most commonly called the secondary mortgage market. consumer credit is quickly following suit, with blocks of unsecured also being graded and sold en masse to these same types of investors. always considered one of the safest investments of all, fannie/freddie bonds are backed by real estate held by borrowers-- when a default occurs, the property collatoralizing the loan goes into foreclosure, and is sold to satisfy outstanding liens; proceeds following this process, if any, are returned to the borrower. sometimes sale at foreclosure produces less funds than the borrower owes on it. this is especially true when a property is bought with little or no money down in a softening economy and/or falling property values. my problem is a consumer issue- i can't refinance my property with a fannie/freddie loan product as a self employed borrower, regardless of never having had a late payments or derogatory entry of any kind on my CRA reports. these computer models also ignore LTV-- it makes no difference how much equity you have in the property. this being the case, the FICO score and NOTHING ELSE determines whether or not i get real estate loans. denied by computer!!- the investors' issue FICO is causing has already started to come into the picture-- borrowers with scores of 680 and above can get loans at 90-95%, or 100% if they don't mind paying higher interest rates. this requires no job, no income, no skills or education: age over 18, valid social security number, and perhaps 3 or 4 small, unsecred lines of credit gets you in. while this does offer some remarkable and unprecedented opportunities to the honest, neophyte entrepreneur, it opens wide and unguarded doorways to criminals who would rather do it with a computer than a gun, and probably also not have to answer for it. need a hideout or stash house? buy one using FICO-- computers write fannie/freddie back commitment letters in under 15 minutes, subject only to a property appraisal. when a defaulted borrowerer with no equity walks away with nothing to lose, guess who picks up the tab?? a certain amount of legitimate default can always be expected, and is an inherent risk with all types of business and investment- along comes FICO, openly inviting more. the credit industry itself does also share responsibility for this as well, mainly by embracing computer scoring models so quickly and ardently, without taking the time to study and observe moral and legal implications of judging people by machine, to say nothing of the possible long term consquences of limiting or completely removing the human element from what is ultimatley a customer service marketplace. there is a very plausible explanation for this-- automated decision-making allows people to stop thinking for themselves, and excuses them from taking responibility for their actions, learning from mistakes, and growing. it's convenient, fast and usually painless. as a concept, it's ideally suited for what it seeks to accomplish, though in practise, it's a horrendous failure. similar can be said for communism, eugenics, fascism, need we continue? read plato, then read marx and lennin. human beings are not ants, don't live like ants, and share very little in common with ants. from a zoological standpoint, an ant colony is a single organism. see if ants can invent the wheel, much less a computer. on a grand scale-- to be continued shortly
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| | Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 03:19 pm Doug, I moved your posting to your own topic. No offense, but I consider your postings a complete waste of time. There are people like me who want to accomplish something, and there are people like you who just want to rant. That's fine, but I have an agenda and I don't need the disruption. Look at Ann, Mel, Erik and many others who file their complaints and make a sincere effort to change the way things are, or to research and share HOW scoring works. The proof is in the pudding. You haven't contributed ONE piece of evidence, you haven't posted a single complaint to regulatory agencies, you haven't posted a single letter to your legislative representatives. That's lame, to put it mildly. Especially for a Harvard graduate. Shylock contributes more than you to this forum, and he is PRO scoring.
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| | Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 04:28 pm Doug IS the evidence; he is living evidence that FICO is fraud. It is truly unfortunate that a piece of software can produce so much damage to so many types of people. Having said that, it is commendable to see the many here who have taken decisinve action to improve the overall situation. It is also true that there are those of us whose credit profiles are fine, and others in between -- who have chosen to support verbally what has happened throught sites like this, but yet, have not taken specific action but have chosen to play along with the FICO game. Some time ago, I posted how influential the top world bankers are in setting global policies that are pervasive. I believe, personally, that fighting this is pissing into the wind; only a societal overhaul would effect beneficial and universal changes. This is not to say that changes cannot take place locally and without success! I am just taking a global view, seeing as we live in an increasingly globalized society.
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| | Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 06:25 pm I agree that chances are slim that anything GLOBAL will happen any time soon. BUT, somebody might just come along and file that law suit. Or some legislator might actually care enough to read here and figure out what's going on. If I didn't think it was possible, why the hell would I spend 60 hours a week for NOTHING? There IS mounting evidence. Especially now that we can get those scores on demand, things are looking up. But I don't think that Doug is evidence of anything. For literally MONTHS I have offered Doug space on the web, for his own page. He has promised to fax me decline letters and whatever, I got NOTHING. Now think about this: Doug posted repeatedly that Fair Isaac is costing him $1,000/week. He's a millionaire and makes ungodly amounts of money. So, you tell me why he won't spend the $55 to get a full review of all 3 reports with my recommendations? Chances are, he'd have his 680. Or at least we'd have what *I* call evidence. Something just doesn't pan out here. And, I don't mind people posting whatever they feel about scoring, as long as it's not in topics like "My open letter to Fair Isaac." There are obviously new readers who post in the wrong places, but I'd expect a Harvard graduate who's posted here for months to figure out that I don't want rants in response to my correspondence with Fair Isaac. If for no other reason than out of respect for Ann. They're trying to get their mortgage, and a response from Fair Isaac MIGHT just get that Inovision collection reported correctly. It won't change the world, but it will make a difference to Ann and her family. And if other people would/will be as proactive as Ann, something major might change after all. That open letter is more evidence than anything Doug has ever posted here. I have reviewed the Equifax report on-line, there is NO question that what I saw is what it is. THAT is evidence.
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| | Thursday, April 05, 2001 - 07:06 pm hi christine-- you may believe in throwing good money after bad. my attorneys and i do not. here i am, ranting and disrupting. NOBODY KNOWS how FICO scoring works, and nobody is allowed to know, not even FITCH, MOODY's, and BLOOMBERG. by default, i don't know, you don't know, shylock doesn't know, and where we went to college makes no difference either. you keep on beating the dead horse, christine. my medical experts have run their electrocardigrams, hooked up wires for electroencephalograms, drawn plenty of blood for analysis, observed a carcass bloating and stinking in the sun-- shylock claims that dead asses serve their masters better than live ones- so he has posted up alot more material in support of his beliefs. [UN}fair issac holds a smoking gun, and here i sit here, sans ass. proof is abundant; the government has granted immunity to every party i may name as defendant-- should i be spending my own money to file lawsuits against an untouchable? many support me, even the lenders FICO forced to deny my applications. wells fargo has put it in writing, and my mortgage broker at PNC will join in concert- "Doug, FICO FUCKED you; the music isn't very nice, details not so pretty, so let't not post it up all over the internet."-- care to hear about details???? my therapists will document MEN walking out of group sessions based upon nightmare sequences i have described; women vomited and passed out. take my dream, wonder how i got off psychiatric disability into a career in real estate. God alone made that possible, not I. i have some data for you, christine. this is long overdue. it will come along privately as soon as i am able. thanks--- douglas pratt
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| | Friday, April 06, 2001 - 12:00 am let's sue God for all these credit scoring woes. didn't God create the sun that shines, or do you need more Harvard Lectures to qualify me as FICO FUCKEE to justify a lawsuit for rotten weather in boston- believe ye all, there's enough of that to justify plenty of legal action against weathermen who lie day to day, not from one mortgage term to the next, april blizzards notwithstanding!-- * credit scores change like the weather, as does my bowel. my wife has a barometric toe, complaining about bad weather a day or two before it happens. her predictions are usually correct- sorry, i end up excusing myself more often than being able to predict disasters of intestinal nature-- a supply of tissue in the pocket usually suffices; in most irrreverant circumstances, i strip down and wash in the tub and pat dry, or go about the business as best i can with pants full of diarrhea. do we need to offer explanations for these things, just as our impeachable clinton was obliged to before congress about oral sex?? who among us is without sin? i'll stand aside on that one- leave it to an irreverant, corporate ass to cast so many stones all the bystanders die in the process, and nobody was left to copy down jesus' words. if God didn't whisk him outta there, Christ would have required resurrection on the spot- , forget waiting until easter. is this the legacy we want to leave for the next generation, and the future of mankind?? i reject mad max and fahrenheit 451 as what children left behind have to inherent, and make no claim to be exemplary on that score, either. creatures citing mindlessness as primary attribute stand condemned by their own volition-- engaging in thought means they are ultimately capable of thought, bringing down about themselves the ultimate hipocrasy: the ability to formulate and evaluate moral construct mandates compliance therewith, or condemnation by tautology of syllogistic logic in denying it. the judge is judged; proof is in the pudding. quoting God, in human form of Jesus Christ, "as you have judged, thereby shalt ye be judged." nobody is perfect. i'm not, you're not, shylock is not, and neither is anybody else, except the avatara: jesus, rama, krishna, buddha, mohammed, zoroaster, sai baba, among others i can't bring to mind as i write here online. the universe does dispense ultimate justice, and that is the reason why every human being should follow the teachings of representitives of God who have lived here on earth- i can offer infinite arguements based upon facts and observations traversing disciplines of natural science cross-correlating one another; a nearly complete unified field theory as expounded by albert einstein [with missing variable], the concept of karmic entitlement with explanation of the human condition, cause and effect, cycles of life and death, creation vs. evolution [both are correct] with non-linear evolutionary progression of life, biology and spirituality in harmony with each other and their respective ideaologies. metaphysics; eschatology; aberrations of observed phenomenon; aberrations of predicted phenomenon [probablity]; temporal displacement [barrier vs continuity, or singularity vs infinity] and their resultant paradoxes; polymorphosis; permutation of matter; thought energy/r.e. temporal reality; tesseractial modeling/r.e. reality; continuity of consciousness/r.e. birth and death. viability of reincarnation; reality of the soul dualism vs non dualism. unity in diversity. true nature of manifestaion, sustenance, dissolution-- "big bang theory", word of creation, resonances of creation-- OMKAR; harmonics and subharmonics; CETI, and the 3khz universal silence. chakras of the human aura. spiritual unions between sentient beings. falling asleep. somebody else's computer will do that for you from now on--sit back, and be a FICO ant-- *** don't complain if it parks you in bankruptcy-- i've had enough-- goddnight, if you can stand any more of me-- *
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| | Friday, April 06, 2001 - 09:58 am Doug, this is my FINAL warning. Only a few hours after I asked you not to be disruptive, you posted the above rant in response to my question to editor What were your 4 main score factors each time? 1) Next time you post OFF TOPIC rants, they'll go to the moron section. And, if I'm having a bad day, you might find your account disabled. Please read the BayHouse posting guidelines 2) I have previously expressed my concern about your language to you. BayHouse IS an adult site, but it is NOT a porn site. There are forums where people get reprimanded for words like "pissed" or "damned." I'm really NOT picky about language, but there IS a limit. I want BayHouse to be accessible in libraries and if you can't respect that, don't post here. Thank you.
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| | Friday, April 06, 2001 - 02:54 pm hi-- i apologize for the rantings-- after a miserable day at work, i had a bit too much drink to and got going in a really bad way. over the next few days, i will be faxing you some material relevant to our purposes here-- you will see several credit reports with perfect payment histories and low FICO scores, and i can provide appraisals of the subject properties, letters of denial from fannie/freddie backed lenders stating that credit scoring is the reason why i'm always being categorically turned down, and the name and number of a mortgage broker who best understands my situation, if you wish. privacy is important, so if you're going to post it on the site, please don't include street addresses, account numbers, personal identification, etc. this last posting was inappropriate-- i apologize again to you and everyone else who comes here. we share a common goal, and i believe what i have to offer can be of value in helping accomplish our objectives. once you have the material in hand, you can review it and see if it would make a good addition to the FICO is fraud section. you won't have to warn me about misconduct again, for sure-- thanks for your patience and consideration--  * doug pratt
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| | Friday, April 06, 2001 - 05:47 pm Appreciate that, Doug. I never post ANYTHING about peoples' reports or disputes unless I have written permission. Even then I don't post names and addresses or any other personal data, as that's completely irrelevant. Am looking forward to seeing your reports and documentation.
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