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     | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 11:14 am  Ever wondered which credit reporting agency a potential creditor might use when you apply for credit with them? Is one of your reports better than the others? For months, I've seen countless posts everywhere with people asking " ... which CRA does Fleet use?" or "who pulls Equifax?". It inspired me to put together a consumer credit web site -- starting with The Ultimate Creditor/CRA List. Visit the site. Search for a creditor (or all) to see which CRA's they use and what frequency the use them, and see the totals state by state. YOU, the consumers, provide the data. Add your inquiries to our database. In a short period of time, we'll have quite a collection of inquiries -- enough to help everybody out. The site is brand new, so please help us build up the database. When somebody asks "Which CRA does this creditor/lender use?", you can tell them to head on over to Millennium Credit Building Strategies (www.millcbs.com) - Home of The Ultimate Creditor/CRA List ! Thanks!
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 11:16 am BTW: It's all free, folks. And I'm going to do my best to keep it ad free ... 
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 02:22 pm John, Just a suggestion... I personally know what it's reporting becuse you say so in your post above, but to anyone who hasn't read this board, they might think that the banks you list, and show what CRA they use to get your info is actually what CRA's they REPORT to. Your site is not clear about this. There are also some navigation issue I personally have with the site. As far as a message board community is concerned, I cringed when I saw future plans for it. The reason is not because Christine should have the only message board that is devoted to spreading the truth. The reason is because it splinters the information. You have every right to do so, and I commend you initiative, but if the goal is to get information to the masses, and to help people who need help, consolidation is the key. I personally have some issues with this site as well, and I've been planning on talking to Christine about them. Now, I'm not accusing you or Christine of this, but part of the problem in consolidating information is ego. Who wins out? I too am in the process of putting up a web site that I want to be consumer friendly. While I won't give out any information yet as to what the content is going to be yet, I do plan on talking to Christine about it. I haven't talked to her yet, but my hope is to form a bigger site, with more resources. Again, I haven't talked to her about it yet, so I don't know even if she's up for the idea, but I know she's having discus problems, and search engine problems. I feel like I can solve these problems, but it would require new software. Just some constructive comments I felt obligated to share. Dan
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 05:28 pm I think what John is trying to do is a great idea IF it works. Not only is there the problem of verifying what people post, but card issuers may be using different reports for different products. I don't know if that's the case, but I know that when it comes to REPORTING they obviously don't report ALL accounts the same way. (see Citibank, Capital One, AmEx ...) And of course their policy is always subject to change. It would sure would be nice to know where to apply so that the one "good" report is used. As far as Dan's comments go, I'm very open to discussing this privately as well as right here. I have often thought about shutting the forum down because it is just SO much work. But then there is so much I have to say, and I do like to see what others think. If I could just find ONE forum I like, I'd just post there whenever I feel like it or have a specific issue I'm researching. At the creditnet forum my ISP is STILL banned, because I requested last May that they e-mail Robert's postings about me before deleting them so I could provide law enforcement agencies with the postings and the IP numbers. On the other end of the spectrum is the boardserver board where people get reprimended for using a word like "damned." And you have all those self proclaimed "credit experts" who don't know a thing about credit scoring or simple logic. The postings at creditinfocenter were so insulting to people looking for help, I'm not going to post there again either. I also don't see why I would spend MY time posting at another board so they get the traffic and the ad revenue. And speaking of which, I really am allergic to blinking ads. The more I deal with "merchants" and affiliate crap, the less I like it. Of course it DOES enhance my perception of reality. In today's E-mail: "1) Make Valentine's Day Loving and Profitable! Valentine's Day is approaching and we'd like to help you reap some of the sweet rewards. Here are some loving reminders from ..." It goes on to give me hints on picking the most effect blinking banners and the most profitable banner placement. Those banners annoy me as much as bad advice. I AM trying to get the credit and FICO pages updated, it just all takes so much time. I actually think it would be more useful if I concentrated more on the web site, made the forum read only, and started posting infomercials for BayHouse at the other boards like the other credit site owners/employees do. And then there are the forum software features. I have looked around, I just don't see anything better. One exception is the board discussed at http://www.bayhouse.com/discus/messages/6/1156.html?980638713 Of course I haven't tried it yet, but it sure looks nice. I read their FAQ, and they DO delete postings, something I have been able to avoid. Although it sure would save a lot of time if I just hit that delete button instead of trying to prove people wrong and waste a lot of my time. Anyway, that's some of my thoughts on another credit forum.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 05:48 pm Even in it's preliminary stages Johns site is quite impressive. However I feel that he's trying to keep up with something that changes too fast. I have noticed that on my reports and hear others confirm that creditors may use all three for different reasons for different acoounts. Like for instance Capital One did the inital inquiry on Experian but they are now doing monthly AR's now on Equifax. I don't understand how the state has to do with anything. I can understand what state the company is in... Therefore that office has an account with CRA XYZ and uses that one. Do creditors actually pull based on my zip code? Now I can understand large banks with local offices pulling different reports, but is company XZY in say "Baltimore going to pull a different CRA for me than say someone in BALTIMORE? John things I would like to see on your site. FICO stuff. (Oh course) Easy to get credit cards, check cards, store cards. Advice on individual credit products about how to lower your APR (when to ask, what to say). Chexsystems freindly banks. (I'm clean with them but it seems that alot of people went bad with checks during there rainey days.) List of all FREE CREDIT report places and there pro's and cons. Major auto/mortagage lenders with rebuilding programs. List of good sites to get information from. Sample letters to dispute CRA information. CRA strategies. Plain enlgish FCRA transcript. One or two banners wouldn't hurt. I'd click it every time I show up.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 05:56 pm One or two banners wouldn't hurt. I'd click it every time I show up. That's pretty funny. Doesn't pay though, except for Lending Tree, search engines and very few others it's a "per account or percentage of sale" commission. As far as your suggestions, that would really be great. I'd be doing a lot more camping
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 06:34 pm I think the inquiry thing is a really cool idea and potentially very useful. Just looking at what's in there now it looks like a lot of the creditors may just pick a random agency or something? That kind of sucks. A few suggestions: 1. Add a date field for when the inquiry happened. That way if a company stops using one CRA and starts using another it will be easy to see. 2. Consider making people register (get their IP's and an email address) before entering data. Call me paranoid but I wouldn't be suprised if a few credit card companies don't want people to know which agency they are pulling credit reports from and currently it seems like it would be pretty easy to enter bogus data. 3. Add a form or something to suggest a new creditor. I didn't see Target in your list and didn't see a place to add other creditors.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:20 pm Dan T said Just a suggestion... I personally know what it's reporting becuse you say so in your post above, but to anyone who hasn't read this board, they might think that the banks you list, and show what CRA they use to get your info is actually what CRA's they REPORT to. Your site is not clear about this. It is crystal clear. Go read it again. It specifically states things like "Wonder which CRA a creditor pulls when you apply for credit" over and over. If you happened to blow by the first page (the one that explains everything) without reading it, then you won't see it again until your next session (browser close/open) - I do that to save time and clicks for people adding multiple inquiries or searching multiple times. There are also some navigation issue I personally have with the site. Please feel free to forward them. In just 10 hours, I've received four dozen "looks great, navigates great", but I don't mind any suggestions our comments you may have. Don't post them here (email them to me) - I'm sure Christine doesn't want to read them! As far as a message board community is concerned, I cringed when I saw future plans for it. Feel free to steer clear. I'm sure that others will benefit quite well from all the useful information out there.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:23 pm I think what John is trying to do is a great idea IF it works. Not only is there the problem of verifying what people post, but card issuers may be using different reports for different products. Thanks, Christine. Yes, I will be making changes as I go along. The issue about different products reared it's ugly head earlier today, and I'll be adding that soon.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:30 pm Amistad: I'm not tracking who's REPORTING to who over time. I'm tracking INQUIRIES for NEW credit applications. I make that quite clear on the site. I don't understand how the state has to do with anything ... Do creditors actually pull based on my zip code? Yes - a creditor may pull a different report depending upon what area of the country YOU live in. And I ask for the zip code because it's better information. Right now, I have lookup tables that have all the zip codes in the country, the city/cities those zip codes belong to, the metropolitain area those cities are in, and the states those cities are in. If I decide later to sort by city or DMA, I can do that with a zip code, but not a state name. I also verify the zip code as valid before allowing the entry to be displayed in the list. Thanks for the suggestions. I'll be adding much more as we go along, but I think I'm going to try to stay away from advertisements and plugs for shameless creditors selling lousy charge cards.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 07:39 pm Erik: Thanks! Early on, it all looks random. But as the database builds, you'll be able to see trends (i.e., 100 Experian inquiries by Chase in TX versus 4 to Equifax and 8 to TU). We're not guaranteeing anything - just trying to make a place to possibly help out. A few suggestions: Actually, all three are already addressed on the site. (1) When a person adds an inquiry, I save the date in the database along with the info. That way I can filter, say, only the last 3 months worth of data, or possibly allow the visitor to query by date range. I DO save the date, I just haven't decided HOW we'll use it yet. (2) It *is* easy to enter bogus data. If I see a pattern or obvious problems, I'll consider a 'register' type of solution. For now, I already *do* record the IP address of the visitor who adds anything to the site (easy to delete in bulk!) (3) You CAN add a new creditor. Click on 'Add Your Inquiry'. It takes you to a page that lets you add your info -- in the middle of the page is a link that says "Don't See A Creditor/Lender Listed? Click Here to Add One" (or something similar to that). Thanks for the suggestions.
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| | Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 08:42 pm Here's what I don't understand: Since creditors determine by ZIP CODE which CRA to use, why are you listing by STATE?
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| | Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 08:39 am John- I am willing to email or fax over a copy of the lists of "those who have requested your credit report" from all of my reports including my zip code/state if you are interested. I have quite a few, unfortunately! Maybe I missed it on the site, but is this how you gather your info? I think it is a great idea, and once the database grows, your numbers will be very helpful just as the 100 from Texas example illustrates. Thanks for trying to give us all a leg up.
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 07:07 am Christine: I never said they determine by zip code. Is that a fact? I list by state because I have yet to implement the 'sort my DMA (aka metropolitain area)', which is probably more accurate. I had to pick something, and state looked like a good start. I doubt few would search by a specific zip code - most will want to search by DMA or state. I have the lookup tables (which zips are in what DMA), so all I need is the time to change the site. Patricia: You can add everything right on the site. On the search screen, there's an image to click to take you to the 'add inquiry' screen. If a creditor has not yet been added to the database, you can add that one yourself, too (the link to add a creditor is on the 'add inquiry' screen). John www.millcbs.com
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 08:52 am John, since "metropolitan area" is not part of a loan application, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet to assume that the zip code is used to determine which reports are used. Also, there are people living OUTSIDE of metropolitan areas. I'm SURE that there are tables available with a list of the zip codes for the predominant reports, but I don't have one. I also remember that my mortgage clients sometimes had most of their accounts on Trans Union, which wasn't used much in my area. Since all my clients were in California, that seems to indicate that looking by STATE isn't very helpful. I think Shylock posted once that he dropped the ConsumerInfo.com monitoring service because their report (Experian or Equifax) wasn't used much. He's in the LA area, I was in SF. Equifax and Experian were the 2 reports most used on the SF Peninsula and in the City. But I *think* in the East Bay Trans Union was used more often. I also remember discussing with loan reps which reports the lender would pull and was told it depended on the area. Again, my clients were all in California. Here's what would be useful: I'd like to enter my zip code at your site and possibly even the report I want utilized, then get the lenders that use it. Since you're already collecting the zip codes, that should be doable. The only problem is you need a LOT of data to get any results.
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 06:56 pm For at least one major bank, the rules regarding what order the CRA's are contacted varies by 3-digit ZIP code, and by the type of credit involved.
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| | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 07:06 pm That's what I thought, thanks!
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 06:30 am For a zip code inquiry sample from one lender try this link.
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 10:56 am Where do I go on that page? With only 3 digits for the zip code, a lot less data is required. Maybe John could also add an option to report if the new NextGen scores are used. That would be good to know.
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 11:34 am Sorry should've been http://www.northstar.org/credit.html
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| | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 12:35 pm That's definitely helpful! While not ALL lenders use the same criteria, some pull 2 out of 3, and for mortgages we usually need all 3 reports, this gives one an idea how this works.
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| | Monday, February 05, 2001 - 04:27 am "Metropolitain area" doesn't HAVE to be part of the application. Either a zip code is within, or it's not. There is a TON of analysis that one could do with a zip code. Truth is, none of us really know WHAT is used to determine the CRA. As stated before, it could change as the wind blows (i.e., one CRA offers a discount for a 2 month period). IMHO, the lowest common denominator would have to be the zip code, which I exactly WHY I am collecting the data by zip code, and not by state, city or metro area. At a later date, I'll be able to provide MANY ways to slice it up. Here's what would be useful: I'd like to enter my zip code at your site and possibly even the report I want utilized, then get the lenders that use it. That is absolutely doable, based on my collecting zip codes. But as you said, I need much more data in order to make it as accurate as possible. And you'd have to *hope* that someone within YOUR zip code has (a) applied at the same creditor as you are wanting to and (b) visited www.millcbs.com to add the info. Because a metropolitain area contains zip codes within a close geographical area, I'd be willing to bet that it would be a pretty good indicator. Not perfect, be pretty damn close. If you live in one part of the San Francisco area, odds are the same creditor might use the same CRA if you lived in a city that was 15 miles away from that zip code. I've even written algorithms to determine which zip codes are within (x) miles of a certain zip code - these could be utiliized as well. I don't really know which is THE way it's determine. I'm collecting data to help people who have no better resource right now. If I can help SOME of the people SOME of the time, it's better than helping NONE of the people ALL of the time.
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 08:40 am John- Well, your list has resulted in my first success. My experian report is very good, my other reports are not so good. Christine in her advice to improve scores recommends 2 department charge cards and also notes that she has heard Target cards are easy to get. Well, I had no department store cards so I went to your site. I looked up Target and a few others. Target only showed experian (my state was listed). So, I just applied online and was approved with a large credit limit. A couple things you all might find interesting. They did not request ANY employment or income information from me. This suggests that they looked at my credit limits on the report to determine my line with them. The credit line is comparable to all my other available lines listed on the credit report. The interest rate is stupid (21.0%) which may partly explain why it is "easy" to get a card with them. I would not have risked the inquiry only to be denied if it were not for your site John. Kudos to you.
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| | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 06:31 pm Patricia - I'm also interested in applying for the Target card (love the store and Experian is my best report too). May I ask approximately what your score is on Experian, or how good/bad your report is? I really want that Target card, but I want to see if I have a good chance before wasting an inquiry. I just disputed some derogs on mine and if they get deleted I'll only have a few not-so-horrible derogs on there, but my biggest problem right now is that I don't have enough open trade-lines to bring up my score.
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:06 am I just got a Target card and received a small credit limit. They pulled Experian and I have one paid charge-off that is 2 years old, two paid collections that are 5 years old, and 4 open revolving accounts, and 2 open installment accounts all in good shape. Target didn't tell me my credit score but in October my Beacon was 575.
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 08:12 am I would not have risked the inquiry only to be denied if it were not for your site John. Kudos to you. That's exactly what my intentions where when I decided to put that resource together. I knew I could not guarantee any specific results (creditors change CRA's all the time), but the way I figured, something was better than nothing, eh? Congrats! Say, did you add YOUR inquiry to the database? John Millennium Credit Building Strategies Home of the Ultimate Creditor/CRA List!
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 09:03 am My experian report has 4 inquiries over the past 24 months and one negative: a paid collection from 11/94 being reported correctly (i.e., all dates are the 94 date no way they are using a current date) for about 200 dollars. Everything else is clean except perhaps a high balance to limit on a couple of listings. I have no idea what my score is because like you, I have no idea how to get it without applying for a mortgage.
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| | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 09:06 am John- I will be adding mine and my husband's tonight. Thanks.
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| | Friday, February 16, 2001 - 10:57 am I am a little frustrated looking at things. For most creitors, it seems even in any given state, if you filled out the data set as complete as you could get, it would show they pull all three. It just depends when you hit them, which one they will pull. I appreciate the work, but without knowing when they use certain reports, it's not very useful. -Dan
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 06:05 am Dan - Your comment/question makes absolutely no sense to me. If you could rephrase it in a manner that makes logical sense, I'd be happy to address it. John http://www.millcbs.com
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 03:03 pm I think I understand Dan T. to be saying, hey look some of the listings have Equifax, Trans Union and Experian all pulling in the state of Texas (hypothetical) so this is not helping me. That is the case with some of the larger banks, no question. However, some of the smaller companies such as Target, seem to be pulling from the same bureau, no matter where you are from. This is true for a half dozen companies listed. Victoria's Secret, too, for instance. It's just one of many tools to consider when applying is how I look at it.
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 03:24 pm What I've said all along is that this list isn't perfect, and it's not foolproof. But the more data that's gathered, the MORE accurate it's going to be down the line. In the weeks and months to come, you'll be able to search the list and start seeing real patterns. You'll see that (for example) Discover pulls TU 86% of the time if you live in Texas, even though there's a few Experian and Equifax inquiries as well. The general idea is to be able to make the most appropriate estimations, not necessarily to provide a foolproof, 100% accrurate inquiry (which would be nice, but we all know that's not going to happen). John. http://www.millcbs.com Millennium Credit Building Strategies
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