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     | Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 05:36 pm  Can I get some advice, please? This is my first time posting here. I found the site when Bayhouse answered my question at askme.com. Bayhouse listed Sterling Bank & Trust as a good source for a secured credit card. Having just recieved a chapter 7 discharge, I am anxious to start to rebuild our credit. Sterling offers a secured card with a minumum $200 deposit for $39/yr. For an additional $39/yr, you get a second card (one Visa and one MC) with both cards drawing on the same savings account. Is there a significant benefit to having two cards with Sterling? Would this give me two seperate credit histories? Any advice or input to help us out starting fresh would be greatly appreciated.
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| | Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 07:11 pm I would think that would be listed as two separate accounts on your credit report. You should read Christine's post on improving your credit scores: http://www.bayhouse.com/discus/messages/123/655.html?962170897
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| | Thursday, March 22, 2001 - 07:35 pm I actually called Sterling a few weeks ago because I was curious how that worked myself, and I updated the info at http://www.bayhouse.com/order-credit.shtml#Sterling "Sterling Bank has the best SECURED card program. You can't beat the LOW fees and the credit limit of 125% of the deposit. Credit Reporting: To all 3 bureaus reported as UNSECURED. If you get both the Visa and M/C secured by one deposit, it will be reported as a M/C account." That's what their marketing manager told me on the phone. They're not planning on on-line applications, that's how they keep the fees low, he said. I can see in my Sterling affiliate report that 20 or 30 people downloaded applications, but nobody has ever posted about Sterling. And I haven't gotten any commission checks either. I'd greatly appreciate any feedback! And I'll put that long posting on improving scores on web page as soon as I got a new web host. Just closed the 5th account in 2 weeks an hour ago. Didn't know that 24 hour tech support means that it takes at least 24 hours to get a response.
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| | Friday, March 23, 2001 - 02:39 am Thanks for the clarification. I am sending an application in the mail today (3-23-01)for a Sterling Bank secured Mastercard (rather than both). My rationale being if I have two cards, they might just as well be from different banks so I can get two histories on my credit report. Keep an eye out for your commission! And thanks for the site.
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| | Friday, March 23, 2001 - 04:37 am Great forum! I'd like to post another question. I want to re-establish credit in ways in addition to credit cards. Background: Our condo is in my wife's name only, and our car in both names with hers listed as owner & borrower and I as co-owner and co-borrower (both reaffirmed). I guess the repayment history (post joint-bankruptcy) will benefit only my wife and I will need to establish additional credit. (We hope to relocate and purchase a home in 2-3 years.) Question: How do I get a small loan from a bank (on-line or national) to accomplish this? I live in a small, eastern US state without alot of options. How long after discharge should I wait to apply?
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| | Friday, March 23, 2001 - 08:46 am I think many banks and credit unions will let you take out a loan if you can secure it w/ a savings account or cd. I haven't tried this yet but I've heard of people who have.
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| | Friday, March 23, 2001 - 01:24 pm Bill, much appreciate your feedback, and please let us know how Sterling works out, problems or not. You definitely need to check your credit reports, you need to know exactly what's reported and dispute any incorrect DATES, BALANCES, PAST DUES, etc. See the scanned disputed bankruptcy credit report You need to look at EACH one of the 3 reports and make sure that you have AT LEAST 4 to 5 reported accounts with HISTORY by the time you apply for the mortgage. If your auto loan is reported as "included in bankruptcy" I ** believe ** it won't count for credit scoring. Also, I hope you read about the reporting problems with Capital One and Citibank. It's quite a job to get the reports to where they will produce good scores, and you need to do it ASAP because you cannot "create" history. Accounts just have to be open for some time. If you have the money for deposits, I highly recommend at least a couple more credit cards. As soon as your reports are ACCURATE, and once Sterling has been reporting for a couple of months, you might want to try for a Target charge card.
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| | Friday, March 23, 2001 - 01:35 pm I moved Bill's questions in their own topic. It would be really nice to have some underwriting guidelines for charge or credit cards. I hate to see people get more inquiries for declines. Does anyone have details?
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| | Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 10:08 am A partial repost from http://www.bayhouse.com/discus/messages/2/1332.html?985444206#POST7595 FHLMC (Freddie Mac) bankruptcy and foreclosure underwriting guidelines: If you believe that a Borrower with a prior bankruptcy, foreclosure or deed-in-lieu of foreclosure now has an acceptable credit reputation, then you must document all of the following in the Mortgage file, regardless of the circumstances contributing to the bankruptcy, foreclosure or deed-in-lieu of foreclosure: • All accounts are current. • The Borrower has a minimum of three tradelines or four noncredit payment references. • Each of the Borrower's minimum payment references has been active within the most recent 24 months, and at least one has been open for the most recent 24-month period. • If the derogatory credit included tradeline credit, then the Borrower has reestablished at least one tradeline credit. • One of the payment references is housing-related. • If the Borrower has monthly rent payments that weren't reported to the credit repositories, you have documentation for the most recent 12 months that meets the requirements in Single-Family Seller/Servicer Guide (Guide) Sections 37.8(b), 37.11 and 37.20. • An underwriting analysis on Form 1077, Uniform Underwriting and Transmittal Summary, or on a separate document ties the Borrower's explanation to the other information in the Mortgage file and enables you to reasonably conclude that the Borrower has reestablished an acceptable credit reputation. In addition, if the significant derogatory information resulted from extenuating circumstances, then that analysis also leads to a reasonable conclusion that the events causing financial difficulties were beyond the Borrower's control, are not ongoing and are unlikely to recur. [Page : 4] You also must ensure that documentation in the Mortgage file evidences the following regarding the Borrower's credit history: Documentation must Show... Prior Financial Mismanagement Nonchapter 13 Bankruptcy,Foreclosure or Deed-in-lieu Of Foreclosure ...No new public records for bankruptcy, foreclosure, unpaid judgments or collections during the most recent... ...48 months ...No payments 60 days or more past due during the most recent... ...No more than two payments 30 days past due during the most recent... ...No housing payments past due during the most recent... Extenuating Circumstance Chapter 13 Bankruptcy Any Bankruptcy, foreclosure or Deed-in-lieu of Foreclosure ...No new public records for bankruptcy, foreclosure, unpaid judgments or collections during the most recent... ...24 months .. ...No payments 60 days or more past due during the most recent... ...No more than two payments 30 days past due during the most recent... ...No housing payments past due during the most recent... Credit scores and the reason codes that accompany them are useful tools to help you address the additional risk that a prior bankruptcy or foreclosure represents. Balances-to-limits is an especially strong indicator of this additional risk. If you're using credit scores in your manual underwriting, and any of the reason codes pertains to balances-to-limits, then you should consider a FICO bureau score below the Basic review range to be a strong indication that the Borrower has not reestablished an acceptable credit reputation. The table below, excerpted from Guide Section 37.6, shows Basic review ranges based on property type: When the property type is... FICO Bureau Score 1 unit over 660 2 units over 680 3-4 units over 700 --------------------------------------- In addition to the Freddie Mac ** guidelines ** the LENDERS establish their own guidelines. I have found that it is really important to have NO late payments after the bankruptcy at all. And again, be aware that creditors may STOP reporting, so my 4 to 5 account recommendation is a MINIMUM. In the short run the inquiries and NEW accounts will lower your scores (6 - 12 months.) Of course that doesn't matter because your scores are ALREADY low right after discharge. You can NOT start too soon!
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| | Saturday, March 24, 2001 - 06:59 pm Christine, Thanks for the Freddie Mac data. I read the warnings on Citibank and Capital One. What I should do I guess, is call customer service 2 days befor the due date of my Sterling Bank payments to ensure it's been received. If it hasn't, then send a wire or checking account debit. I'll be really p.o'd if they pull that on me and have no problem reporting it and complaining loudly. I recall a bank in the news recently that got penalized for this. I'll post my experiences with Sterling on this board. What are Target stores? We do not have them up here. Does anyone have experience with the following department stores that may have liberal credit terms for rebuilding credit: Filene's, Bon Ton, Ames, Home Depot, Circuit City, K-Mart, Wal-mart, JC Penney, & Sears. I had a JC Penney and Sears account years ago. They have not been used in 6+ years and I don't believe they were ever closed. They were not part of the bankruptcy. Is it possible they would still be open...or would I need to reapply? I did have one account in my bankruptcy that was called Total Home Center, selling appliances, furniture and carpeting. They usually had 3 months or 12 months no interest, no payment programs. I had a relatively small balance, $325 and in hindsight, I should have paid this off prior to filing. We are considering sending them an offer via certified mail to accept our payment in full if they would be willing to keep our account open with the same terms (in writing, of course). Any thoughts on this? The car and condo were both reaffirmed, so I guess both are considered "in bankruptcy". I am taking your advice and sending copies of my discharge to all three cra's with a list of debtors asking them to straighten the reports out. I'll get copies of my credit report (free once a year in my state according to your site...you saved us $48!!!) and go through it. I did see your scanned credit report and I will get a book on the subject in order to do it right. Thanks for your (and everyone else's) responses. It's great to be able to get this info, it'll save a lot of time and trial & error!
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| | Sunday, March 25, 2001 - 12:30 pm Chances are good that those Sears accounts and other department store cards are inactive and unusable.
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| | Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 10:21 am Hi all, I have started the credit repair process. I sent each of the big three a list of creditors involved in my joint bankruptcy. I have received 2 of the 3 return receipts. It's been over 2 weeks, how long do I wait before looking into the reason the third never received my certified letter? I received Trans-Union's response Monday. On my report, all the creditors on the list I sent them had "included in bankruptcy" on it. A few still showed a balance...so a little clean up is due there. My report was huge with some items going back to the very early 90's. The problems that forced us into bankruptcy didn't start until late 1999 and I/we had perfect credit up to that point. So, my question is: Should all the pre-bankruptcy records be removed, leaving the report blank except for the items included in bankruptcy? Is there any benefit to leaving records of excellent pre-bankruptcy credit on the report? Any advice on the next step in the credit repair would be welcome. Also, I was approved for a Sterling Bank & Trust secured credit card, so Christine should get her referral fee!
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| | Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 02:00 pm Bill, thanks for letting me know about your Sterling approval, they better send a check sometime soon! Re. certified mail: You can start a trace if you get to a post-office with your receipt. Just looked at usps.com and couldn't find tracing for certified mail. I really don't know if any balances shown while "included in bankruptcy" will be used for scores, but I'd dispute just to be on the safe side. Do NOT dispute any good accounts! The more good credit history you have, the better your scores will be. I just posted on establishing credit with department store cards earlier today, try JC Penney and Sears, my JC Penney account is still open after 4 years of non use and invalid address. Existing accounts with YEARS of good history are much better for your credit scores than NEW accounts. If you find that you inactive accounts are closed (please let us know!) try for the "instant" credit some stores offer to anyone with a credit card, which you now have. You should also get a couple more credit cards that report to all 3 bureaus ASAP. I specifically recommend First Consumers because they'll convert your account to unsecured and report it as the same account without showing several opened and closed accounts as some companies do. At least that's what I've seen recently on the credit reports. You don't need to worry about inquiries lowering your scores now and they won't count in 12 months. Better get those inquiries sooner than later!
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| | Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 02:13 pm Forgot to mention: I had a relatively small balance, $325 and in hindsight, I should have paid this off prior to filing. We are considering sending them an offer via certified mail to accept our payment in full if they would be willing to keep our account open with the same terms (in writing, of course). Any thoughts on this? Did you ever contact them? I don't know if they'd be interested, get everything in writing. The car and condo were both reaffirmed, so I guess both are considered "in bankruptcy". That COULD be a problem. Sometimes I was successful having the "included in bankruptcy" notation removed IF the accounts were always in good standing. If there were late payments, it all depends on how late ... will it hurt or help the scores? Those installment loans would help your scores a lot if they are NOT included in bankruptcy and show as current accounts with no lates. It sure would be helpful to know whether scoring ignores accounts entirely when they are "included in bankruptcy."
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| | Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 06:35 pm Christine, I am sending a request tomorrow to see if the one creditor will reafirm the $338 bill. I asked to have the account reopened with the old terms and limit. The condo has a ten year credit history with no late payments. The car loan has a short history, but all payments on time and in full. I will see if I can get the "in bankruptcy" removed during my repair process. I did have both a Sears and JC Penney's account, though inactive for several years. I will check both stores out this weekend to see if they are accessable. The First Consumer card is not available to residents of Vermont (they're not Civil I guess...pun intended). My second choice was Sterling. Thanks again for this forum, it's an invaluable source of info, even for those of us back east!
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| | Wednesday, April 18, 2001 - 07:27 pm And I thought FCNB is nationwide ... and there's all that info here because people like you are willing to share what they know and learn 
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| | Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 02:29 am Quote taken from FCNB website: Note: To be eligible for an FCNB Secured & MoreSM credit card, you must be at least 18 years old, have an annual gross household income of at least $12,000, and be a citizen or permanent resident of the United States (product not available in North Carolina or Vermont). See "Who Should Apply" information here for other requirements.
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| | Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 03:16 am Vermont's credit reporting laws are extremely difficult to comply with. I'm sure that a lot of people on this board would clap and say how 'progressive' the rules are. Unfortunately the practical effect of these rules is that a lot of companies just aren't interested in providing products or services into that state as a result of the extreme regulations.
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| | Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 05:12 am Shylock, Vermont's credit reporting laws are stringent due to an incident several years ago by one of the big three (or all, I'm not sure and going by my recollection). Somehow, a whole town was reported as delinquent in their property tax bill and screwed up everyone's credit. The state sued on behalf of the taxpayers and won. That's also why Vermonters get a free report from each of the big three every year.
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| | Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 06:30 am Bill, When you asked about which stores you may want to try. I can add this piece of info. Last year I applied for both a Bon Ton and a Home Depot. I was declined and my wife was accepted. Both of our scores are numerically close. Then they were about a 630. The difference was I had a '92 bk with a couple 30 day lates in '98. She has the same lates, but no bk. I am not sure whether its the bk itself that scared them or the lates after the bk, but keep that in mind when calculating your chances with those two.
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| | Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 08:07 am Don, The Trans-Union report I received this week showed three accounts still open but with no activity in years: Radio Shack, JC Penney, and Belden Jewelers (none of which were involved in the bankruptc). We have a Bon-Ton and Home depot in the greater Burlington, Vt. area, but with the info you supplied, I'll hold off for now. I'll see if I can still use the Radio Shack and JC Penney. I did not see any mention of my "point score" on the report. How do I obtain this? Is this rationale correct: The quantity of credit inquiries (that remain for a year on our report) immediatly post-bankruptcy discharge is moot because it will take 18-24 months anyway to work my credit up to a level where I can get a mortgage and the inquiries will have fallen off by then, thereby not affecting my score when I really need it? Thanks...
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| | Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 08:38 am Bill, right now you can only get your Beacon score with Equifax, but hang on to your money for at least a few months. Your score is obviously very low now. I remember I was declined for Radio Shack about 15 years ago, was rather offended as I had no lates whatsoever. But give them a try, since it shows open. You never know ... Re. inquiries: you got it exactly. PLUS, to get the scores up you need to have the open accounts WITH the history. And I don't know what the Vermont credit reporting laws are, but you can bet that everybody would lend there if California enacted identical laws. EVERYBODY gets their Beacon score because California law requires it by mid year.
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| | Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 09:39 am I called the local Radio Shack store and asked if my account was still available for use. I was told it was listed as an inactive account (five years+)and I would have to re-apply to use it.
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| | Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 12:28 pm Classic beacon scores are now available for anyone to purchase because the classic model is obsolete. At this point Fair Isaac can sell the classic scores, including explanations, without letting their competition get a potential leg-up on them. California's legislation is more facism in search of a problem to solve.
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| | Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 01:17 pm Bill, too bad about Radio Shack, try JC Penney. Shylock, I believe we will be able to obtain our NextGen scores as soon as anyone uses them. I think it's the law, effective mid year. I have yet to see a NextGen score.
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| | Thursday, April 19, 2001 - 06:21 pm Well, I'm soon to leave Kalifornia so they can keep their stupid laws and their electricity problems.
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| | Friday, April 20, 2001 - 05:04 am JC Penney was a no-go as well. I was told that inactivity of more than a year would require my re-application. They were very anxious to have me re-apply, but I declined as I know what the result would be. We received our Experian credit reports Thursday. There are a few minor items that need cleaning up: 1) I was listed as discharged under chapter 11, instead of chapter 7 2)One creditor on the listing I sent them to update had not been updated and showed 60 days late as of 3-01. Everything else was updated appropriately. 3) They still had my ex-wife's name listed as spouse, 13 years later. My wife's report was cleaner. Both these should be no problem at all to correct. I'll keep you posted on how things progress. Hopefully someone can learn from my process, or can offer advice! P.S. It's still too cold here, although we are having the annual Maple Sugar Festival this weekend!
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| | Friday, April 20, 2001 - 07:59 am This is too weird with JC Penney, they told you what they told Erica. Yet I hadn't used my card in years and any mailings have been undeliverable since 98 and my account was open. Go figure! Guess I was just really lucky. Make sure you get that 60 day late off, there's NOTHING worse than CURRENT delinquency!
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| | Friday, April 20, 2001 - 10:15 am Bill, Ten things I've learned in the year since my Chapter 7 discharge: 1) You can't reaffirm a debt after it has been discharged. 2) Ford has the best car loan program for someone with a recent BK. (Leased a Taurus at Ford's best rate with a low down payment just a few months after discharge.) 3) Old cards on a credit report are hit and miss. I just started using one I hadn't used in at least three years because I noticed it was still listed on my report. (And lucky for me, it's a card with a $2,000 credit line and a 20-year credit history.) I have one card still listed as open that I haven't used in at least a decade. I have another store card listed as open on one report and closed by credit grantor on the other two. Penney didn't have a balance during the BK process (it was mainly used to buy Huggies at Eckerd), so it wasn't included. That's great because it's another two-decade-old creditline. So now I use it and pay in full every month. 4) FCNB is a great bank to deal with. Some banks -- such as Chase and some of the other big names -- even give you even a fully secured bankcard if you have a BK on your credit reports. I hope over time I can build my FCNB secured card into a Eddie Bauer MasterCard, though this will take years. (This is a prime card, and I'm still in secured land.) 5) Credit unions are much better to deal with than banks. Mine gave me a fully secured loan at a great rate without pulling a credit report. I can also get a secured Visa without a credit report with at 10.70 percent and no annual fee. Many credit unions also open checking accounts for people on ChexSystems. 6) Nordstrom and Target will apparently give you a store card two years after discharge if you do a good job of rebuilding your credit. (I hope to find out in a year.) 7) You can buy a house with an FHA loan two years after discharge, though Christine can tell people more about this than I can. 8) The credit bureaus couldn't care less if what's on your report is right. 9) Stephen Snyder's "Credit After Bankruptcy" is worth every penny. I urge anyone who has just gone through or is considering going through a BK to rush to his or her favorite bookstore and buy a copy. Snyder's seminars are even better (he'll tell you you don't need to buy the book if you go to a seminar), and they are FREE. (For more on Snyder, visit http://www.afterbankruptcy.org.) 10) Boards like this one and Creditnet (http://consumers.creditnet.com/phorum/list.php?f=1) -- and people like Christine and the regulars on both of these boards -- are godsends. Hope this helps, Shy
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| | Friday, April 20, 2001 - 04:57 pm Shy, Excellent advice! I bought Stephen Snyder's "Credit After Bankruptcy" just before I filed and refer to it often. Their seminars (by invitation only) apparently do not come to my neck of the woods. Unfortunately FCNB doesn't do business in Vt or I would be applying there for a secured card. I've found this forum and askme.com's bankruptcy and credit forum to be very helpful. I'll check out the creditnet forum that you suggest. My wife has access to a credit union through her work and I'd like to check that out for a secured loan and/or secured card if they report to the credit reporting agencies. I purchased the credit repair book by John Ventura called "The Credit Repair Kit" but haven't found anything in it I haven't learned for free online. Has anyone used a credit repair book? Was it worth the money?
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| | Friday, April 20, 2001 - 09:09 pm Just a note about the California mid-year law going into affect. The law states that a lender has to provide "a score". It does NOT specify which score, and does NOT even require it to be the score the lender makes the decision with!!! This law will not really change much in California....
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| | Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 08:14 am I posted this question on askme.com and would appreciate any feedback you folks can offer. My wife has an item on her credit report that may cause a problem. We started "credit repair" on our own after recieving our joint chapter 7 discharge. With one creditor she had a $1000 revolving line of credit and $1,300 balance on a $4,100 used car loan. The car was not worth the balance, was causing a lot of problems and we'd already spent too much to repair it. She forfeited the car back to the bank in late November 2000, we filed chapter 7 in early December 2000, and the line of credit was discharged in the bankruptcy in March 2001. (Note: both items above are in my wife's name only.) Immediately after receiving the discharge, I sent the three reporting agencies a copy of our discharges and a listing of creditors so that they could update our reports. When we got the reports back, one of them showed the car loan as open and current as of 3-01. The line of credit was noted as "included in bankruptcy". My questions: What will become of the item on the report showing the car loan open and current? Can this come back to haunt us? My wife was never notified that any money was due the bank after she returned the car (as far as legal fees, etc). If we leave it alone and it stays the way it is on our report, can that affect future credit?
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| | Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 09:52 am A quick response to Katie: ONLY due to the California law EVERYBODY in the US can now get their Beacon scores. We'll see what happens by mid year. To Bill: As long the car loan is CURRENT with no LATES, it will only HELP your credit scores.
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| | Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 05:10 pm Christine, I agree that the California law has instigated us getting our Beacon scores. I just wanted to let people know that it doesn't mean NextGen scores are on their way as well. With the law written as it is the Beacon score would be sufficient for compliance, or the homegrown Experian scores that aren't FICO scores, or any other score out there. It's amazing to me that this law doesn't even specify that a lender has to show you the score they used to make their decision!
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| | Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 06:21 pm Katie, that is amazing. It's been a while since I read the legislation, and it may not have been the final version. I'm sure that people will be demanding the score they were declined for. In a way we're always screwed, legislation is 10 to 20 years behind reality and as soon as there is some law, corporate changes how they screw us.
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