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     | Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 10:12 pm  I am building a new home, and am supposed to close the 16th of Jan. A week ago my mortgage broker called to tell me that my loan approval was finalized, and we were just waiting for the house to be complete. I was approved for 90%LTV. My score was almost 600, and I am approved through a subprime lender. (2/28) with a 6k prepayment penalty. I have 2 charge-off accounts that will both be coming off this year. Otherwise, everything else is clean. (Excellent payment history for the last several years) I sold my home 4 months ago. I owned it for 10 years, and had a perfect payment history with my mortgage company. I am in an apartment now, just waiting for this deal to finalize. My credit was last pulled less than a month ago, and it still stated that I owned the house I sold. Now, my credit reflects that I sold the home,and the mortgage is paid in full. My broker called two days ago to tell me that my credit score had dropped to a 530 score (middle) He compared the recent report with the last one, and the only difference is the fact that it shows my mortgage to be paid in full. No other differences in the reports. How can my score drop so much ?? I do not see this possible. Now, the mortgage company is saying that they will only approve the loan at 11%. (which I had been told the loan was finalized a little over a week ago). My broker told me that mortgage companies usually rerun a credit report right before closing. Anyways,other than the house selling, and the inquires made because of the loan process, I am bewildered about how my score could drop so dramatically. Any advice?? You would think that the mortgage company would look at the fact that I have had a previous mortgage loan (10 years), and had a perfect payment history. My broker says that the mortgage company underwriters are getting very lazy and are resorting to computerized approval systems, instead of manual grading.
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 07:27 am Maybe all these hard hits against your credit has something to do with it. It sounds like it is getting pulled a lot.
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 10:09 am Fist of all, if these charge-offs are so old they're dropping off this year, AND you have an otherwise good credit history, you should have had much higher credit scores and you should have been approved for A-paper. Other than MANY inquiries I also can't imagine what would cause the drop. You might want to consider joining Doug Pratt in his efforts to form a class to sue Fair Isaac and the lenders. Doug just got his broker's promise to provide an affidavit, hope to have it on the web within a few days. I recommend you ask your broker for an affidavit with regards to the changes in the credit report and the reasons (credit scores) for the sub prime loan, and the now the even higher interest rate. Make sure you got copies of all credit reports. Also, get the LENDER's statement that your rate is going up because of your credit scores. In the short term, there's not much you can do except let everybody know that you intend to take legal action. Maybe the lender would rather give you the lower rate than deal with a law suit. I find it strange that your Scores were so low to begin with, would be happy to have a look at your reports free of charge, you can find my contact info at http://www.bayhouse.com/services.shtml
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 12:46 pm If he removed names and details, could he not post them here as well? I'm sure we're all curious.
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 05:55 pm Shawn, Your broker may be pulling a slimmy trick. Generally if your loan was approved they will use the original score, provide nothing material has changed. Especially if it is only 30 days old. My guess is that your broker realy didn;t have it submitted and approved. I woudl ask for and demand a copy of the original approval. If they can't produce it, there is yoru answer. Also, request a copy of the current approval. With this approval you are looking to see how much the broker is making in YSP(Yield spread). Some brokers try and give you the bad new and jack your rate right before the close when they know you can't back out. Remember, you can allways back out. If you get a copy of the approvals, I woudl be gald to look them over for you. Fax to 513-583-0963. Since I have access to all of the subprime lenders out there, I would be glad to either fax your a copy of their rate sheet or tell you what they are making if it is not on the approval. Unfortunately this kinda last minute rate change happens more than it should due to incompentent loan officers. I'm not saying that this is the case will your person, but i hear it happen way to much.
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 08:39 pm Today, I asked my broker to fax me a copy of my merged credit report. (the one with the credit scores on it) He did, and my credit report is now reflecting 18 inquiries. (up from 6) All of these are obviously due to the loan process. I haven't applied for anything because I have been so frantic about the approval. I found out that the previous credit scores that my broker told me about were from my pre-approval, which was pulled in November. He is so wishy-washy,and is completely confuses the heck out of me. I am told different stories every day. I told him that at 11%, I am not prepared to close this loan. He told me that I would owe him 50.00 for the credit report fee, and another 75.00 for a cancellation fee that he would receive from the title company, if I backed out. The house costs 245k. I am financing 220,500. I make 120k per year, and have very little debts. I have several really old accounts that are stated on my report as "unrated". I know it isn't exactly negative, but it isn't positive either. I am going to dispute these with the credit agencies. I am having major problems with my builder, and I am having to pay an enormous amount of money to get out of the lease at the apartment complex, so that I can protect my credit. Basically, I am going to be stuck with 2098.00 a month (P&I) in mortgage payments for at least 2 years because of the 2/28 and the prepay penalty. I agree.. I do not think that this loan was ever submitted to the mortgage company until recently. This is how much my credit scores changed from Nov until now: TUC 603, EFX 576, XPN 550 Now.. TUC 524, EFX 527, XPN 494. How could this possibly change so dramatically?? Nothing has changed on my reports except the inquiries. (which if made within a short amount of time, from what I hear, are usually counted as one) This is what the loan approval and conditions letter says... LTV 90%, Approved, Rate 10.9900, Margin 6.4000, Prepay 2, Index 8.0537, Broker Rebate .5, Loan Program 30LIB26M, Approval Expires 02-04-01. That is all I could read, as it was faxed to me, and didn't come out perfectly clear. Although my credit scores were low, the charge offs are just 3-6 months from coming off. My Experian report only reflects one charge off, and it is my lowest score. Why is it so hard to get a high score on Experian?? I am self employed and am doing a lite doc, with 12 months of bank statements. I have a very large savings, and have had a previous mortgage that was paid perfectly for 10 years. I have been in business for 5 years. I ran into some very difficult times around 7 -8 years ago, but still made timely payments on my mortgage and auto loans. Since then, I have paid timely on everything. The charge off accounts are embarrassing, and have proven to be a hard lesson. I value my credit enormously now, and want nothing more than to have this burden of bad credit lifted off my shoulders for good. I am considering backing out of this deal, and pursuing a loan at the end of this year.(when my lease is up) I will lose the 7k that I put down so far on the house, but at least I will be able to relax for a while, and won't have to pay so much to break the lease on the apartment. Today, my broker told me that I should call the underwriter myself, and try to get them to lower the interest rate. I called and left her a message on her voice mail. I am so confused on what to do. I love the house, but the builder is refusing to do some very major repairs. (major drainage issues, among many other problems.) The only good thing about this process is that my loan doesn't have PMI, or an origination fee, and my builder is paying the title policy. Should I just suffer the high payment for 2 years, and refi then, or wait? The builder has raised the price of my floor plan to 275k. I got it for 245k. They are selling these homes like crazy, so I don't think that my builder is overly worried about me backing out. They can keep my 7k and sell the house for 275k. I would greatly appreciate any advice
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 02:11 pm I think that Don could be right on, it appears your broker is either totally incompetent or he purposely mislead you. The inquiries are most likely the cause of your drop in scores. If it was your broker who caused those inquiries, you should hold him responsible for all damages. There's no point to guessing. You made a huge mistake by NOT getting everything in writing. It's time you start doing BUSINESS. The first thing you should do is post right here the name of your mortgage broker, along with his company name and location. Then print this entire page and fax or deliver it to him. Demand a WRITTEN explanation of exactly what happened, when, and why. Do this via FAX so you have proof of your request. WHERE did those inquiries come from that now caused your higher rate? THEN post the broker's response, every single word. Until I know what the broker has to say, I can't really make any recommendation. There's a good possibility that I'll recommend a complaint with your broker's licensing agency, and a law suit. But first we need to see what your broker has to say in his defense. If you don't have the WRITTEN response within 24 hours, file the complaint with his licensing agency and start looking for a lawyer. If you already have a good lawyer, I highly recommend you have him take over RIGHT NOW. If you really think you're getting a good deal on the house, I suggest you close and THEN sue whoever screwed up. Don't count on being able to refi though, nobody knows what loan rates/terms and requirements will be 2 years from now (read Doug's problems.)
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| | Wednesday, January 10, 2001 - 08:24 pm Has anyone heard of New Century Mortgage? and if so, what is your opinion? Also, please let me know of opinions on a 2/28 ARM. How hard will it be to refi this loan in two years and get a better rate? (scores will go up considerably due to negative items falling off of my report)
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| | Saturday, January 13, 2001 - 05:53 am Shawn, Sorry for the long delay in responding but here is all of your answers. First, New Century is a national B/C lender. Been around for a while. Originally senior management was a breakoff from Long Beach Mortgage. Now as a public company, they have bought an interest into Worth Funding a smaller niche player. This allows Worth to uses NCM licensing and give NCM access to moore loan pools to securitize. As for your Broker, betting lunch that they are lying. I have in front of me all of Worth's programs. In order to make the rate and LTV combination you are speaking of, you are speaking of you had to be graded as an "A" borrower under their matrix. This "A" status is not the same as conforming. The base rate for that program was 10.19 + .50 for using 12 months Bank Statements plus .30 for 1/2 point to the broker. The basic u/w standards are 575 score & 45 Debt Ratio. So it appears this crap about changing the rate is false since your new scores are lower. If either you or Christine would like a copy of the matrix I can email or fax. As for what to do? First 1/2 to your lying broker seems like to much. That's $1100 plus any other fees like a processing fee they might be charging. Also, you willbe paying worth $999 in junk fees($400 u/w, $75 wire, $136 Admin, $13 Flood, $75 Appraisl review, $300 Doc Prep) which is a little higher even for a B/C company. Based on todays LIBOR rate of 5.44 and your margin of 6.4 your will most likely go to a rate of about 11.84 at the end of two years. Worth does give you an option to reduce or buyout the prepay. 1 pt will reduce it to 1 year or 1.5pts will buy it out completely. Based on what you've posted, I would try and get the broker fee reduced. I'm sure they made enough mistakes that you could either report them to their state regulatory agency or other federal agencies. Instead of going through that hassle, they should agree to reduce their fees as they did not deliver. How far off is the Good faith from the final? Did they even give you all of the disclosures, ECOA, FCRA, GFE, TIL, Right to recieve copy of appraisal, Calif disclosures(if in CA) and the one everybody forgets, Consumer Handbook on Adjustable Mortgages, and Hud's Settlement Guide to Closing costs? I would not buyout the prepay as they cost is probably not worth it. I would make sure that you are ready to refi in two years. Two years should be enough time to fit some of the things you had problems with. Though there is no guarentee rates will be lower or you will be able to refi, odds do favor that if you start things now, you should be able. Problem is most people wait or don't do anything once the loan is closed and thus have the same problems down the road. On the bright side, you tax deduction may be higher due to the higher rate. Also, DO NOT take out a 2nd mortgage for any reason durring the next two years. This will/may prevent you from being able to refi. Hope this helps. Again sory for the delay but got tied up with other stuff. Feel free to email me or contact me anytime. If you want, email me with your contact info and I'll put you in our database to contact in 2 years and send you some reminders about every 6 months. Don Semler http://www.aimloans.com http://www.metloan.net
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| | Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 12:20 am After many sleepless nights, and the sound advice of this board, I decided to wait until my credit is completely clear, pay credit cards down to almost nothing, and save more money for a higher down payment, in order to get a lower, much more feasable interest rate. I just cannot put myself in a risky position. I plan to stay in the next house that I buy for a very long time. Seven years ago, I would have closed this loan, and worried later. 2100.00 P&I are just too high for me to feel secure. I do not feel secure unless I have a very large savings left over after I purchase a house. Being self employed, I have to plan for my future. After going through almost 7 years of having bad credit, I realize how precious a good credit rating is, and I never want to be in this position again. I have had to pay cash for alot of things that I used to charge. I have learned how to plan, save, and manage my money due to having bad credit. This has been a very hard lesson. I know that I will be in a better position in a year. My credit will be clean by then. I am NOT going to ever build a home again. I will buy a pre existing home. I am going to tell my builder that I am not purchasing the home today. I am also going to tell my broker on Monday. He did tell me once before, that if I backed out, I will owe him 125.00. Although he did not exactly treat me with complete honesty, I do feel really bad. I am nervous that he might try to slam me with cancellation fees. Can he do this? I have no problem paying my broker for his expenses. I want to do what is right and fair. I just don't trust him & worry that he might charge me for fees that he shouldn't be charging me for, out of anger for me backing out. I want to thank everyone for all of their advice. I feel that I am making the right decision by waiting. I do not know what the interest rates will be in a year, but I do know that if I did this loan, I would spend the next two years worrying about refinancing, instead of enjoying my new home. I feel like a weight has been lifted from me by deciding to back out of this loan. I will be very cautious in choosing my next broker. Backing out of this deal will cost me the 7k that I have already paid to my builder, and I would not have lost this money if my broker had not made me believe that I would get a decent interest rate. I did get this in writing. Of course, nothing changed on my report during this loan process, except the 18 inquiries that were made by my broker, and the mortgage companies that he sent my application to. I was told over and over again, not to apply for anything, and I didn't. Thank you so much. I greatly value the opinions of members of this board. (especially Don & Christine)
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| | Sunday, January 14, 2001 - 05:06 am Shawn, I seriously doubt that the broker can collect a dime from you. Most brokers won't push this as it is two easy for you to complain to the sate agencies that regulate them. If they try and push you on this, tell them you are going to file a complaint with the BBB, Texas are Mortgage Brokers and the state for bait and switch tactics and RESPA violations. You shouldn't have to pay their expenses as i doubt they will pay yours. As for the builder, you may have an out there as well. Check the financing contingincy of your contract. Also, look for any other things in the contract that the builder failed to do. Remember, he will most likely not have any damages since he can resell the house for a higher profit. I wouldn't walk away on this $7k so quickly. If your purchase contract stated that you were to obtain a mortgage with a specific rate or better, your out with no loss as that condition was not met. There are ususally so many "weasle' clauses in contracts that I would spend a couple of hundred to have an Atty. review it if needed to see if you can get out with either less damage or get everything back.
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| | Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 04:00 am (1) If you signed a purchase agreement with a builder, read it and expect to pay out some cash if you rescind. (2) Depending on the contract, you ARE liable for SOME costs to the broker/lender if you back out. They aren't going to pay for credit reports and third-party services out of their pocket and then forget about them if YOU back out. (3) Most importantly, if you never received a commitment letter from the broker/lender, that's your fault. Beyond that, they certainly have the right to change (or cancel) anything IF your credit history (inquiries, accounts, whatever) causes a change to your scores. You were approved on your scores, and they can back out on your scores. Is it fair? Who knows, probably not, but it's the crap we get to deal with because they have the cash, we don't ... 
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| | Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 10:35 am Re. Mortgage Broker: In my first posting I recommended that Shawn ask the broker for all kinds of documentation to sue Fair Isaac, the lender, someone else ... There was a reason I did that. It's usually not a great idea to tell someone you're going to sue him and then expect cooperation. A much better way is to sue *anyone else* and ask for help with documentation. That tells the broker that there MIGHT just be some kind of legal problem ahead while you're still on friendly terms. The loan COULD have gotten a lot cheaper. I.e. the broker makes good on the original quote. That broker deserves jail time, at the very least he should lose his license. This is NOT Shawn's fault! I guess it's a mute point. Shawn isn't buying that house, nobody will be sued, no complaints will be filed. That broker can go on to screw the next person, Fair Isaac can go on selling scores that don't work, lenders can continue to use those scores. Re. Builder and deposit: I've gotten paid good money to get people OUT of builder contracts, never seen anyone lose a penny. But that was in California where sellers can't just sock it to the buyer unless they DO have damages. John is right, read the contract. I have a few things on builder contracts at Auctions
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| | Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 08:40 pm I will not have to pay out any more to the builder than I already have because I am backing out... will I ? They haven't said anything about that yet. I have a copy of the contract, but they gave me copies that are one-sided.. meaning that all the legalities on the reverse side were not copied and given to me. In the sales contract, it states that the commensement deposit is not refundable even if the loan is declined by the mortgage company. It states that the earnest money, (1000.00)shall be refunded by seller if buyers loan is declined by the lender or the conditions of loan approval cannot be met by buyer. Of course, all of the legalities that are on the back side of the contract.. the builder did not give me. They just made a copy of the front side. I know that I must seem like the most idiotic sucker, but believe me... nobody feels worse than I do at this very moment. I could sit here and beat myself up, and wonder why I did this.. or why I DIDN'T do that, but that certainly wouldn't get me anywhere. I have learned a very big lesson, and am paying a very large price for my lack of responsibility to get everything in writing.. from the builder to the broker. From what I have in writing, I assume that there is a possiblity that I will at least receive the earnest deposit back. The commensement deposit being refunded to me is probably very wishful thinking. I just want this over. I have been an emotional wreck, and I want to go on with my life. My broker took the news very well. He was unbelievably nice to me, although he didn't offer any further assistance in trying to get the loan done.. just said that he was sorry that we were losing our home. Our builder is being very nice. They took the news very well too, and said that they would be willing to patiently wait for us to find other funding before putting the house on the market. We even let their in house mortgage company take a look at our credit report.. we faxed them a copy. They said the best they could do was 12% with 24 mos bank statements. The builders mortgage company (CTX) doesn't include a prepay penalty like the loan we were approved through our broker had. (New Century Mortgage). If you were in my shoes.. bad credit(old), and self employed(requiring lite doc), would you shrug off 11% interest with a 2/28 arm? The loan officer with CTX told us that he thought that the interest rate and the LTV with New Century was a really good deal considering my situation. I am starting to doubt my decison, which really upsets me. Our loan approval is good through Feb 4th. (New Century) I am just having a hard time swallowing 11%, especially since the interest rate on my last home that I owned was financed at 7%. My builder asked me to give it a few days before making my decision final. I told them that I was sure of my decison(which I thought I was at the time), but I would at least allow their mortgage company to give it a try by faxing my report to them, so they wouldn't pull my report and add yet another inquiry. I am a mess right now, as you can probably tell. I appreciate your kindness, support, and as always.. your intelligent advice.
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| | Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 11:55 pm Look, Shawn, why not hire a real estate attorney or broker to explain to you the contract and make a couple of calls? You should not even consider basing your decisions on advice from people who haven't read your contract or seen your credit report and know NOTHING about you! I realize that you went to see a licensed professional to get your mortgage and you got screwed. And I know that I don't have much good to say about lawyers and real estate people. But, I can't tell you what to do. I'd have to spend 3 to 5 hours reviewing your docs (contract, credit, loan app, tax returns), run some numbers, and of course talk to you, your mortgage broker, the builder and a couple of real estate people in your area since I don't know your market. THEN I could give you some options. You DON'T buy and you might kick yourself later, if you missed out on $100K in appreciation. You DO buy and you might kick yourself later, if rates go up, you can't refi, the market collapses and you're stuck with a dog of a house that eats up your pay checks. You got a few days to try to make a rational decision. You have to base your decisions on FACTS, not emotions. Make some calls to local real estate buyer brokers. Just pick up the yellow pages and start dialing. They don't charge for taking calls, look for someone who you feel comfortable with. I've met a few buyer brokers who were very good. Tell them that you want to pay by the hour for a consultation and contract review. Ask for a referral if they don't work by the hour or don't have time. If you find someone who is interested SUMMARIZE your problem and ask what they'll charge for two or three hours. An experienced estate broker could give you a lot of good advice. If you can't find a real estate broker, at the very least get a real estate attorney to review the contract and tell you what your legal rights and obligations are. It's not that I don't WANT to help you, but I'm NOT a psychic. It would be totally irresponsible to give you recommendations without knowing a LOT more about you and your situation. Heck, I'm still at loss why your credit scores are so low. But it's a total waste of time to SPECULATE without looking at the facts.
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| | Wednesday, January 17, 2001 - 01:12 pm Just thought I'd add this: Only 10 months ago, due to low to marginal FICO scores (560 FICO [Experian], 631 Emperica [TU] and 642 Beacon [Equifax]), I settled into an 8.875% (call it 9%) 30 year fixed mortgage. It's not 11%, but then again, it wasn't low 7's, either. $1574/mo payment, of which $103 was PMI and $207 was taxes & insurance escrow. I wasn't happy about the almost 9% rate, but I knew things would shape up soon. Over the past 10 months, I've cleared a number of derogs from my histories (some legit disputes, some "not so legit" disputes, 99% persistance and determination), paid a few things down (or off completely), and did NOT apply for any new credit at all (no inquries). Now (again, only 10 months later), I just got off the phone with my (new) mortgage broker. I've been approved A+ at 7.0% (maybe even 6.875 in a week or two when we set closing date) (0 points paid, lender fees $613) with scores of 700 (Emperica/TU), 692 (Beacon/Equifax) and 677 (FICO/Experian). AND I've gained enough equity (via the appraisal) to drop my PMI insurance entirely. I'm down almost $250 a month in less than 10 months. AND my broker promises (in writing, of course) an absolute no-cost refinance anytime after I've been in the loan for atleast 6 months. If rates go down, cha-ching! No cost refi, so I'll take the $$ I expected to pay and pay a point or a point and a half to lower the rate even more. My whole point is this: don't necessarily trash the loan just because you're afraid of a percentage point or so -- things will change, and they will change sooner than you probably think. Remember, you're only going to be in the higher interest rate loan until things shape up (creditwise and ratewise), so a year or two or even three with higher payments is NOTHING compared to the other 27 years you'll be paying that LOW rate once you refinance AND making money as the home appreciates. And equally as important, if you buy the house NOW, you'll start making money immediately (appreciation). If you shit can the loan, you're out a chunk of change AND you don't own even part of the house or it's equity. I bought this house for $167,800 in March, and 10 months later (added only an irrigation system and a deck, both of which I built/installed myself/with friends to save $$), and my home was appraised for $210,000! The neighbor (two doors down, very similar house but he has no deck) bought for $167K in April and just sold last week (he relocated for work) for $198,500! Weigh EVERYTHING out before you waste that chunk of change just because of a lil' ole 1% additional interest point (which is only temporary anyways).
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| | Monday, January 22, 2001 - 06:29 pm Update: I did make the final decision to not buy the house. Well, that was a week ago, maybe a little longer. Anyways, tonight, I received a phone call from my broker telling me that the mortgage company called him today and told him that they did not make their "quota", and would lower their rate by 1% if we were still interested. Now, I KNOW that I made the right decision to back out. I am far from a mortgage expert, but I thought that this was really strange. I told him that I had already withdrawn my 30 day notice at the apartment complex I am living at, and that I had no interest in reliving the nightmare again with the builder. (long story). But anyways, I thought that I would let everyone know.
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 03:09 am Part of the reason they came down is, frankly, because overall mortgage lending rates are coming down at a regular pace. He can afford to drop 1% because is cash source has dropped by that, I suppose. The other part of the reason could be that they've already got time invested in underwriting your loan. If they throw it out the window, then they make nothing. If the do the loan at 1% less than originally negotiated, they are still making SOMETHING instead of NOTHING. That's basically how I got my first lender to drop 100% of my non-recurring lender fees back in March (about $700) - I threatened to drop the whole deal when they started giving me hell about the program. But isn't that what you wanted in the first place (11%) ??
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| | Tuesday, January 23, 2001 - 04:05 pm I would probably have to agree with John on the second point. It was also more likely the broker and the wholesale rep for New Century/Worth asking for an exception to the rate. This is commonly done in B/C Lending where it is not done in Conf. At 11% they have room as their cost of funds is the same for an A borrower as it is for a D borrower. As for their cost of funds comming down. This is not 100% correct. Most of these lenders have warehouse line that are basically short term money rates which are still relatively higher than long term. As an example take a look and most lenders website and notice that adjustable rate laons are at or even higher than 30 year fixed rate. Inverted yield curve. To me it sounds like you might want to reconsider here at this level. The loan is done, and you get instant equity. Mught be worth reevaluating.
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 01:23 pm I was just saying, in general, rates are coming down (look at the trend over the last 9 months), and are expected to flatten out very soon, but could go just a iddy-biddy-bit lower first.
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 04:46 pm Never chase that last quarter point! It is like a man chasing a rainbow or a dog chasing its tail! Christine I hope I am not breaking protocol; however, I would like to get in touch with Don Semler off list. Don, I lost your company e-mail address. February is around the corner and I ordered an appraisal for next Thursday (you know that Bell South thing:-) Anyway please get in touch with me at either e-mail address below. Esajh@netzero.net Or Esajh1@netzero.net Thanks Frank
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 05:50 pm No protocol broken, Frank. But I'll take the opportunity to remind everyone about PROFILES. I just clicked on Don's profile (his underlined name next to his posting) and his E-mail is right there. Don might want to add some more info in his profile, his web sites, services, etc. I certainly don't mind regular contributors doing business. I like having the profiles instead of a signature with every posting. You can put a lot of info in the profile without boring the people who've already seen it a hundred times. I also think it discourages the MLM and whatever spammers
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