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     | Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 01:53 pm  Yes, I found my big list from Fair, Isaac & Company, Inc. and I posted a list of the Equifax Beacon adverse action codes so if you're interested take a look.
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| | Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 07:06 pm Thanks, Sean, appreciate that. Got a question, are those adverse action codes the ONLY data included to calculate Scores?
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| | Tuesday, January 11, 2000 - 09:06 pm Why are numbers 27, 29, 35, 36, 37, and 41 represented by a series of asterisks?
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| | Wednesday, January 12, 2000 - 06:29 am Some numbers are not used in the Beacon US scoring system that may be used in the Beacon Canada or in other scoring models. The line of **** show that they are not used. Christine: I have no idea if these are the "only data" included to calculate the scores, but I think it's a good guess.
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| | Wednesday, January 12, 2000 - 04:43 pm Interesting list. My questions is how long is not long enough on revolving accounts. How many points does your score go down if your accounts are less than a year? Balance ratio too high? It would be easier to get higher scores if it was known what impact these have on your score.
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| | Wednesday, January 12, 2000 - 05:01 pm Kathy, the whole purpose of Credit Scoring is to NOT let people know a thing about the Scores' composition so they CAN'T get higher Scores. And of course, they don't want consumers to find out when the software screws up. Or should that be, find out that the software never worked? That it's all a big scam? That I can guess a Credit Score as good as their crummy software? I think more than anything, it's that last possibility. Why did it take me years to figure THAT out?
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| | Thursday, January 13, 2000 - 05:08 am How many are too many? How many are not enough? This is crazy?!?!?
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| | Thursday, January 13, 2000 - 06:44 am We can be pretty specific about what lowers your score, but we can't be certain about what specifically is the ideal profile. I don't know how short is too short, how many are too many, how much consumer finance is too much and how many revolving accounts is insufficient. The more credit profiles you see the more you get a "feel" for the big things that affect a credit score. I have never seen a credit profile where someone had one of the more esoteric codes show up. As a note this does not mean they're not losing points for having "too many" or "too few" revolving accounts, all it means is that the points they lose for those items aren't enough to push that factor into the top 4 reasons. All we can say is: Pay on time. Keep credit card balances low. Avoid applying for credit. Keep a "good mix" of credit (whatever that means).
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| | Saturday, January 15, 2000 - 08:53 am Sean: You said, "Yes, I found my big list from Fair, Isaac & Company, Inc. and I posted a list of the Equifax Beacon adverse action codes so if you're interested take a look." What is the name of the document from Fair, Isaac? Is it Adverse Action Codes?
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| | Monday, January 17, 2000 - 06:51 am Thank you for bearing with me. I read your post over the weekend and wasn't at work where I have all my information handy. As a matter of fact the page I quoted from is titled "Credit Bureau Risk Factor Reason Codes" and is part of a document titled "Credit Bureau Score Questions and Answers." Both documents are, I believe, designed to aid lenders in understanding scoring and explaining it to borrowers, where appropriate.
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| | Monday, January 17, 2000 - 07:14 am Sean: Wouldn't you say, then, that the title of this thread is a misnomer?
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| | Monday, January 17, 2000 - 07:59 am Sure, Greg. Recommend you modify it for me. I don't know how to modify it.
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| | Monday, January 17, 2000 - 08:35 am Sean: Perhaps Christine can assist us. I think the word score (or scoring) should be added (outside the actual term used by Fair, Isaac). By the way, adverse action is a term used to describe the process of denying a loan.
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| | Monday, January 17, 2000 - 09:23 am Actually giving a consumer a higher rate can also be considered adverse action. Note also that credit reporting does not affect only loans but also affects insurance underwriting, employment and rental applications. The federal trade commission has issued a number of opinions defining adverse action as covered by the Fair Credit Reporting Act and I have requested an opinion of my own. It normally takes them about 18 months to issue an opinion due to budget cuts and understaffing. Of great interest is the Spritz letter in which the FTC maintains that notice of adverse action must be given to a co-signer when a potential tenant is denied a lease based in whole or in part on information contained in the co-signer's credit profile. This is because the action is "...adverse to the interests of the consumer." This is a very broad definition.
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| | Monday, January 17, 2000 - 09:46 am Sean: Golly. Here is a practical reference: Federal Reserve Board Recommended Adverse Action Letter. http://acb.cyberserv.com/qs/Qspage.cfm?pageid=48 Hey, wait a minute. If you knew all of that, why did you title the thread "Adverse Action Codes" in the first place? Or did you look all that up just now?
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| | Monday, January 17, 2000 - 10:05 am Well, I think this is a much better link but I'm glad for the information. As to did I know previously that adverse action had such a broad interpretation given to it from the federal trade commission, yes I did know that previously. I chose the title of "adverse action codes" because Adverse Reason Codes didn't sound right to me.
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| | Monday, January 17, 2000 - 11:02 am As anyone can see by clicking on them, the link Sean just gave can be reached from the link I gave (a table on contents). He has a penchant for balderdash. Sean, if you were familiar with the term adverse action, you wouldn't have tried to use it to describe credit bureau risk score factor reason codes. It is always acceptable to admit your ignorance. Or are you just doing this to reverse your bungle-- trying to turn it into wasting my time?
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| | Monday, January 17, 2000 - 11:46 am I don't get your point, Greg. Are you denying that the referenced codes are the codes one would get on this adverse action letter? Would it have made you happier if I had called this thread Equifax adverse reason codes instead of adverse action codes? If not, why not? Do you feel that advantage credit also "[is un]familiar with the term adverse action" and that it's the only reason they referred to these codes as adverse action codes? Do you feel that their calling their codes adverse action codes is misleading somehow? I admit my ignorance, Greg -- I don't know why you find this term, which seems to be commonly in use everywhere is, so offensive to you? Would you be so kind as to explain?
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| | Tuesday, January 18, 2000 - 08:55 am Sean: Don't be ridiculous; I didn't say the term is offensive to me. Credit Application incomplete is an adverse action, but not a FICO reason. If it is an adverse reason, it should be on your list (but isn't). So the title of the thread was wrong. Without my input, anybody searching this site would have been woefully misinformed. If they were searching for credit score information, they would have passed over your title, "Adverse Action Codes." If they were searching for adverse actions, they would have come across a thread about credit scoring codes. And, the link you gave to Form C-3 Sample Notice of Action Taken and Statement of Reasons (Credit Scoring) doesn't give the full list of scoring reasons.
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| | Tuesday, January 18, 2000 - 10:37 am Well, would you be so kind as to tell me what code goes with Credit Application Incomplete so that I can include it on my list of adverse action codes?
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| | Tuesday, January 18, 2000 - 01:14 pm Sean: No. I harken back to you words: "BFD, I misplaced the Big List. You want a "Big List" of your own? Call Fair Isaac at (800) 777-2066 and select option 2, they'll fax you your own big list." I think this would be a good exercise for you; find it yourself.
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| | Wednesday, January 19, 2000 - 02:43 pm Well, I hearken back to your words where you said, 'Sean, is there any movement to change the words "assumption" and "assume" in the HUD guidelines to "novation" and "novate"? Are you going to lead the charge?' Tell me, Greg -- is there any movement to change the words "adverse action codes" to "Credit Bureau Risk Factor Reason Codes" on the advantage credit website? Are you going to lead the charge?
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| | Wednesday, January 19, 2000 - 03:54 pm Sean: No-- I'm leading the charge to goad Fair, Isaac and the national credit reporting agencies to post it so nobody has to rely on filtered, third party information. You can handle the small stuff with the vendors.
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| | Thursday, January 20, 2000 - 08:42 am I think I'll pass on this one.
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