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     | Friday, June 02, 2000 - 07:58 am  I had some charged off account more than 7 years old and still showed up on my credit file. I wrote to the credit bureaus and had them removed. The question now is will the credit bureaus add them again if the collection agency reports with incorrect date? The second question I have is, if I apply for the mortgage of more than $150,000, will the mortgate company see the charged off records which are more than 7 years old? I do not see them on my credit report, but will the mortgate company see anything different that I can't see? There are no judgement or public records on these accounts Anybody who has some information on this, please let me know. Thanks in advance.
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| | Friday, June 02, 2000 - 08:54 am Look through on the "keyword search" for your answers on them reappearing and time that they are supposed to be on there. You are probably right about the collection company reinputing them and you will have to doublecheck with another report and most likely contest it or use a lawyer. I have given up contesting and have hired a firm. The people who work there are not paid to have any intellect and compulsion to do a good job. It's worse than flipping hamburgers. Take a look at your Experian report because it's totally different than TU or Equifax (CSC). On Experian, the report doesn't show any past judgements or chapter 7 as existing, yet I know they exist from the other two. Score on Equifax--650; score on TU and Experian 540 each. For a mortgage they will run all three and (depending on the lender) take the middle or the lowest. The judgement was discharged in bankruptcy but it still is reflected as outstanding. I've tried to get them to get it straightened out but they are intellectually challenged and that's why I hired an attorney. Be prepared to do so.
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| | Friday, June 02, 2000 - 09:30 am Thanks for the info. But this still does not answer my questions I know for sure that there are no judgements. I have verified this information from all the 3 credit reports. Could somebody answer my questions?
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| | Friday, June 02, 2000 - 11:19 am Keep a copy of the original report showing the dates, it will come in handy. Once an item has been removed they cannot reinserted. The mortgage co. will not see them because they are not in there.
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| | Friday, June 02, 2000 - 12:26 pm Where does it say they cannot be reinserted? This would be VERY handy for me to know.
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| | Friday, June 02, 2000 - 12:30 pm As per the FCRA the mortgage credit report for a loan of $150K or more COULD show the charge-off. Unfortunately we apparently do NOT have the right to see THAT report. I have never seen any report going back more than the 7/10 years.
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| | Friday, June 02, 2000 - 12:30 pm It's not that it cannot be re-inserted-- it's if it is re-inserted you must be notified as such within a reasonable amount of time, 5 days. The creditor can re-insert it if they verify it at a later date as 100% accurate. It's in the FCRA at www.ftc.gov. What use to be called "Soft deletes" would re-appear often. Now with the FCRA changes of 1997, they must inform you of the re-insertion and be sure it is in deed accurate before they re-insert. Kristi CarreonandAssociates.com
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| | Friday, June 02, 2000 - 12:31 pm Senator, please let us know how the attorney works out!
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| | Monday, June 05, 2000 - 06:08 pm Hello, I have a question regarding, I filed for a chapter 13# back in 1996 of September and I was wondering does anyone know how long that stays on ones credit report. I was told by one credit bureau that was the chapter 13 plan has been completed, (which will be in 9/2001) the credit report will then stated discharged and all the bankruptcy accounts can be deleted after 7 years from the filing date of the BK. I guess my question is, are all the BK accouts removed after 7 years from the filing of the chapter 13 or 7 years after the plan has been done. I know with a chapter 7 it is 10 years after one has filed. But with a 13 one is in the program for some time before it is discharged. Any help would be appreciated. thanks
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| | Thursday, June 15, 2000 - 08:46 am Chapter 13 BK will be removed 7 years from the filing date. Any accounts that were included in the BK are not directly related regarding that date -- they have their own dates pertaining to removal from your credit history. Typically, the accounts will have gone delinquent and/or charged-off prior to your filing of the bankruptcy. Even if they didn't hit that state until AFTER you filed, the date used for reporting is what they call the 'Original Delinquency Date' (often reported on your CRA report as 'Date of Last Activity', which makes no sense to most consumers because they sound like two different places in time). The original delinquency date is the date on which the account became delinquent and never again became current. If the account was charged-off by the creditor, the ODD is updated to that date, which is typically within 6 months or so of the ODD. From THAT point, those accounts included in your BK should be removed from your credit reports in 7 years - that's seven years from the ODD of EACH ACCOUNT. Which means each account will have a different date. And it doesn't matter whether or not you filed a BK, settled them later (meaning a lump sump settlement agreement -- NOT a 'payment plan') or never paid them at all - they can only be reported for 7 years from the ODD. (If you agree to a 'payment plan', you are essentially re-aging the account and bring it back to a 'current' status, which means the ODD would be affected). Each account has a different ODD. Make sure you look at ALL of your reports for EACH account and make sure the ODD is accurate. Quite often, an ODD indicates an incorrect date and it hangs around for months or years longer than the law allows. And a Chapter 7 is reported for 10 years from date of discharge, not the date of filing.
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| | Thursday, June 15, 2000 - 12:24 pm Thanks, John. I had to read it a couple times and think I agree with everything, except your very first statement: "Chapter 13 BK will be removed 7 years from the filing date." From the FCRA: "§ 605. Requirements relating to information contained in consumer reports [15 U.S.C. § 1681c] (a) Information excluded from consumer reports. Except as authorized under subsection (b) of this section, no consumer reporting agency may make any consumer report containing any of the following items of information: (1) Cases under title 11 [United States Code] or under the Bankruptcy Act that, from the date of entry of the order for relief or the date of adjudication, as the case may be, antedate the report by more than 10 years." Isn't a Ch. 13 part of the Bankruptcy Act and/or is there any other reference to Ch. 13 in the FCRA? I couldn't find anything. I thought the Ch. 13 will be reported for 10 years from the date you're done paying on it. It's been quite a few years since I had to deal with a Ch. 13 and I don't remember the terminology. Also, I have no idea what "adjudication" is and looked it up in Websters: "1 : the act or process of adjudicating 2 a : a judicial decision or sentence b : a decree in bankruptcy" So what's the "decree in bankruptcy?" The discharge? What is it with reference to a Ch. 13? And why can't they speak English?
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| | Thursday, June 15, 2000 - 03:13 pm I originally found out about the 7 year period from the Associated Credit Bureaus. I think that the site was ACB.COM. What are they? The fraternity of credit bureaus? Apparently the FCRA allows the bureaus to report the chapter 13 for 10 years, but they choose to report it for only 7 years. That was my understanding. John raises an interesting point. It is definitely true that the individual accounts have their own dates for removal. I assume that is because each creditor finds out about the bankruptcy filing at different times. This can be several months after the actual discharge date. And then each creditor reports it to the CRAs at different dates. And this can be several months after the creditor receives their late notice. We have all seen that sometimes a creditor NEVER reports a debt as discharged in bankruptcy, and it still shows on the report as a debt. I am trying an experiment. For all the bankruptcies that I am filing, as soon as I filed them I sent letters to the CRAs (not to the creditors) and enclosed the actual list of all creditors in the bankruptcy, as well as the court-stamped copy of the bnk cover page as proof. I take literary license in the letter and strongly but politely imply that if the CRAs continue to age the I1s and R1s, or allow them to be aged by the creditors who report, then the CRA is guilty of knowingly reporting false information. I also state that by damaging the consumer's credit, it has the effect of indirectly attempting to collect money. I did not actually use the word "extortion". ALL (even indirect) collection attempts are a violation of the federal injunction (automatic stay). I cite the statute. I hope to get a more uniform, or more immediate, date of discharge being reported on the credit reports. Maybe I can get the accounts frozen as R1s and I1s. I wonder if that will make a difference, or if the FICO program ignores all pre-bankruptcy accounts, regardless of whether they are r1 or r9. It is only an experiment, but I think that it might help. If this does not work, I might try it with certified mail.
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| | Thursday, June 15, 2000 - 04:03 pm With regards to the individual accounts: I was thinking that yes, the have their individual payment history UNTIL the discharge. Often accounts are charged off long before the bankruptcy, and the reported date should be the EARLIER of the original chargeoff or the discharge. Or is it the filing? It is absolutely WONDERFUL that you are sending those letters to the CRAs, what a GREAT idea! The attorney notifies the CRAs of the bk and ANY future incorrect reporting would definitely establish that they willfully reported incorrect information. With regards to the aging I have a couple of comments. I don't think you can keep an account rated as 1 from going to a 9. After all, the creditor won't get their money. What's so important is that the creditors report the date of last activity or of the charge off as NO LATER than the discharge. That's what's killing the Scores and even when the consumers dispute, the CRA only seem to fix some of the accounts. And it is very important to keep as many good accounts open as possible. Sometimes people have accounts they haven't used or they only owe a few bucks. Department store cards come to mind. I'd say charge your clients an extra $20 and mail it certified and give them a copy of the mailing as well as proof of the CRA receipt. It'll be the best $20 they ever spent. Mitch, I really appreciate that you are doing those mailings and that you're taking the time to work on ways to PREVENT the credit nightmare most filers go through due to incorrect credit reporting.
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| | Monday, June 19, 2000 - 08:37 am I'm not sure about how the FCRA is interpreted regarding a Chapter 13 vs. Chapter 7, 11 and 12, but I've always known it to be 7 years (it's listed on all my credit reports as dropping off in Nov of this year, and I filed in Nov of 1993). I've also read it dozens of times at places such as this example at Experian's web site.
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