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     | Friday, October 06, 2000 - 11:36 am  I recently disputed an item with Experian and Trans Union. It was an American Express account for about $2K on which I had defaulted back in 1991. In 1997, just before the expiration of the SOL, Amex got a small claims judgment against me, which I spend the next couple of years paying off at the rate of $25 per week. A few months ago, I found out that Experian and Trans Union still showed the Amex debt as charged-off and unpaid even though the 7-year reporting period has passed, not to mention the fact that it had been paid. Equifax didn't report it. I filed disputes, pointing out that notwithstanding the 1997 lawsuit, the 1991 default date controls for reporting purposes. While I've yet to hear from TU, Experian's response surprised me. They deleted the debt itself, but now show the paid-off small claims judgment. Is this worth pursuing wiht Experian any further? I am glad that my credit report doesn't show an unpaid charge-off any longer. But would the small claims judgment, shown as paid, be a negative factor in credit decisions? My report is otherwise fine, with no other derogatory items.
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| | Friday, October 06, 2000 - 08:39 pm That's pretty funny. "I am glad that my credit report doesn't show an unpaid charge-off any longer. But would the small claims judgment, shown as paid, be a negative factor in credit decisions?" Yes. If you had filed for bankruptcy in 91, you'd have MORE MONEY and EXCELLENT CREDIT, provided you paid your bills on time the last 7 years. So now you got a judgment on your credit for many years to come. Great move! ANYONE who considers settlements, bankruptcy or credit counseling please read P. Rosa's postings on bankruptcy. It's a great example of misinformation spread by people who are absolutely clueless, yet *sound* like they know what they're talking about to the uninformed who know even less.
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| | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 12:38 pm If you had filed for bankruptcy in 91, you'd have MORE MONEY and EXCELLENT CREDIT, provided you paid your bills on time the last 7 years. So now you got a judgment on your credit for many years to come. Great move! And how, O Wise Oracle, do you know so much about my financial siutation that you can comment? If you had bothered to read my original posting, you would have seen that my credit is perfectly fine except for this one paid-off judgment. Yes, that might count against me to some extent, which is why I'd like it off if possible, but I cannot imagine that it would be more than very mildly derogatory - for instance, my credit line with a new credit card might be, say, $2,000 instead of $3,000. I can live with that, though I'd prefer not to.
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| | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 01:02 pm One more thing, Chistine my dear. About three months ago, when the Amex debt was still listed as an unpaid charge-off, I applied to lease a $28K SUV. Not only was I approved in less than an hour, but the finance guy told me that my credit score (derived from Trans Union) was almost 700. It seems reasonable that converting the unpaid charge-off to a paid judgment will boost my score by at least 20 points. That would give me a score close to 720 (except as it might have been diminished by the new lease debt, of course), which is hardly shabby. Do you STILL think I should have filed bankruptcy in 1991? Don't think so ...
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| | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 02:47 pm If you had filed for bankruptcy in 91, you'd have MORE MONEY and EXCELLENT CREDIT, provided you paid your bills on time the last 7 years. The more I think about it, the absolute ignorance of your comment really grates on me. You are so clueless as to suggest that I should have declared bankruptcy over a $2,000 debt! That has to be one of the most preposterous things I've ever heard.
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 01:08 am If you can't take the facts, then please look for advice elsewhere. I didn't suggest that you should have declared bankruptcy in 1991. I merely made an accurate statement. While it doesn't make sense to declare bankruptcy over only $2,000, the fact remains that your credit would be better with a 9 year old bankruptcy than with a recent judgment. And since most people have at least 5+ accounts when they declare bankruptcy, let me just make it very clear here that even a 2 year old bankruptcy with strong re-established credit is MUCH better than a bunch of currently delinquent accounts, charge-offs and/or judgments. And how, O Wise Oracle, do you know so much about my financial siutation that you can comment? I didn't comment on your financial situation, I gave you my evaluation of your credit, based on your posting. And just in case your imagination goes wild again: I did NOT give you legal or tax advice. It's also HIGHLY unusual that somebody has only ONE debt of only $2,000 and then defaults on it. I can't understand that at all. Why would you have an AmEx card and no Visa or MC? Why didn't you get another loan to pay AmEx? Why would you choose to screw up your credit for the next 15 or so years over a measely $2000? You sure are a real genius. It seems reasonable that converting the unpaid charge-off to a paid judgment will boost my score by at least 20 points. To the readers who want to INCREASE their credit scores, please do NOT convert 9 year old charge-offs to recent judgments. P, I really don't care what YOU do with your credit, what you imagine and what seems reasonable to you. You're not the one who will be approving and funding the loans to BayHouse readers. There were many times when I imagined what would give me good credit, and I thought about what was reasonable and I expected underwriters to BE reasonable. And then the harsh reality kicked in. You chose to ignore the 4,000+ posting here, a tremendous resource. It's not perfect, I'm not always on-line and even though many regular posters contribute a lot, occasionally incorrect statements go uncorrected. As you can see by the responses to your postings, we try hard to keep misinformation out of this forum. Sometimes nobody knows the answer, we have to guess how Credit Scores are calculated, based on our experiences, which seem to occasionally differ. This forum has by far the highest quality of credit advice available free of charge anywhere. Apparently you have been too lazy to do a search for judgment and/or credit score. You have been too lazy to spend half an hour reading.
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 02:57 am Let's make a suggestion: rather than bicker among ourselves, as you both may be right, there may be factors in the scoring methodology that might allow you (PRosa)to get a higher score with a paid judgement--we just don't know--we need to keep our eyes focused on the goal of eliminating these stupid FICO scores as a basis of decisionmaking and get back to human evaluation of a credit and accurate information.
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 08:32 am No I completely disagree. We are not here to try to get rid of FICO we are here to try to understand how to get good credit and good scores. As part of that we learn of correcting inaccurate information, how to deal with collection agencies, when bankruptcy may be a good option and what companies report completely and accurately and which don't. Scores are here to stay. There's no sense in kicking against the pricks. We just need to adapt our behavior to get the credit we want and need at a price we can afford.
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 09:43 am It's also HIGHLY unusual that somebody has only ONE debt of only $2,000 and then defaults on it. I can't understand that at all. Why would you have an AmEx card and no Visa or MC? Why didn't you get another loan to pay AmEx? Why would you choose to screw up your credit for the next 15 or so years over a measely $2000? You sure are a real genius. That $2,000 AMEX was far from my only delinquent account, but with one exception it was the only one that filed a collections suit. All the other creditors let the SOL's pass without suits and their accounts are off my credit report. I had been prepared to file bankruptcy if I had been hit with a barrage of suits, but thankfully that didn't happen. One other creditor did get a judgment against me in 1992 for about $5K, but so far hasn't done anything to collect it. Yes, I know they have many years to do so, but I have sufficient resources to deal with it if I have to. As far as the credit effects of the $2K AMEX judgment are concerned, note that the original default date (April 1991) is what controls for credit reporting purposes - not the 1997 suit-filing date or the 1999 payoff date. That is why I posed my original question about whether it's worth disputing the issue. If either of the latter two dates controlled, I wouldn't bother disputing and wouldn't have posted anything here, as I would have know that nothing could be done. But since Experian (and maybe Trans Union) is in the wrong, by showing an item that should have come off in 1998, I posed my question. I am left with the impression that you didn't carefully read my posting before responding.
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 10:02 am That paid judgment will remain on your credit reports for 7 years from Final date of satisfaction which means if you made the final judgment payment in 1999 (as you said you spent the next several years paying the 1997 judgment, so I am assuming about 2 years.) then the satisfied judgment will be off your report 2006. That is far more of an impact then the 1991 charge off. I always tell people to be careful what you question because this is exactly what can happen, worse data is inserted or updated.
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 11:33 am Well, I'm here for at least 4 reasons: 1) to get rid of Credit Scoring AND 2) to share what I know about real estate, mortgages, underwriting, credit reporting and credit scoring AND 3) I want to find out and distribute as much as possible about the mechanics of Credit Scoring AND 4) I'd like to create at least SOME awareness about the very low quality of advice given just about everywhere. Whether it be the print/TV/radio media, the net, the socalled professionals, or individuals like P. Rosa, I'm really tired of all the BS and the CCCS, CRA and Fair Isaac propaganda. We know that Scoring makes little sense, we have confirmed that PAYING a collection or judgment doesn't make ANY difference at all. We have fundamental differences in philosophies here, and I really don't mind an occasional opinion/morality discussion. We'll just have to try to keep those separate from actual "advice" topics. There's some things I could say about Shylock's Cato link on bankruptcy reform, I read that article. Shylock DOES contribute a lot of good, interesting info, has done so for a long time. We've had our arguments, I'm sure we'll have more. I think the long time readers know what not to do here, and I'm very happy that problems were limited to the occasional SPAM while I was on the road. Anyway, there's no point pretending that everybody thinks like I do. It would be really helpful if regulars like Shylock and Senator added some info about their philosophy, or political orientation, or just their reason for posting here to their profile. I myself have been trying to get a summary together, worked on it all day yesterday, and the darn thing gets longer and longer. Hope to have that page up later today. When you look at the postings here you could think that there are maybe 10 people reading. But when I look at the logs, I see that the BayHouse forum has thousands of new readers every month. I'm sure it takes many hours of reading to figure out who's who and why they're here. Senator has had a tremendous amount of self imposed stress and aggravation due to his bankruptcy and attempts to get a mortgage only a year later. I really, really appreciate that Senator posted the gruesome details. One thing I don't remember reading is why Senator thought you could get an A paper mortgage only a year after discharge. I know it is possible to get a mortgage the DAY after you discharge if you got lots of equity/cash and you don't care about the rates. But I don't recall ever reading anywhere that A paper is available after a year. Also, it is VERY important to have STRONG re-established credit after two years without a single new derogatory account. I'd be very happy to have a look at Senator's reports, at no charge, just to make sure there's nothing on there that'll cause more problems. I really do appreciate his many postings and I want him to move in his own home ASAP, with the least amount of aggravation. As far as P. Rosa's problem goes, of course there are MANY things one can do to increase the Scores. But I'd have to see the credit reports to make recommendations. Since P. Rosa is convinced that the Score now INCREASED by 20 points due to the new judgment, there is no point to it. It's tough enough to help people who want to be helped, but it's impossible to help people like P. Rosa. Why waste my time on someone who already knows everything? I rather spend a couple of hours giving free advice to Senator and to my neighbors who can't even get a Visa debit card.
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 11:50 am Kristi, Are you saying that a collection placed on a report in 1997 and paid in 2000 will not drop off until 2007?
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:19 pm No. A collection account can only be listed for 7 years from charge off date or first serious delinquency. paying it will not change the date. What I am talking about is a judgment. Unlike collections and charge ooffs, judgments are reported seven years from satisfaction date-thus a good reason to settle them early on. Many times you can negotiate with the judgment creditor to a better rating such as him vacating the judgment in lieu of your personal arrangements.
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:21 pm Oops, spelling error! Meant Charge offs not charge oofs  Although that's a good name for them....
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:59 pm Thanks, Kristi. And did you notice the "edit" link? It should work within 30 minutes from posting.
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 01:00 pm Got it!
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| | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 01:35 pm As far as P. Rosa's problem goes, of course there are MANY things one can do to increase the Scores. But I'd have to see the credit reports to make recommendations. Since P. Rosa is convinced that the Score now INCREASED by 20 points due to the new judgment, there is no point to it. I am not convinced that my score increased by 20 points. I only raised that as a possibility, and could be wrong. But it certainly seems to me that a paid judgment is better than an unpaid charge off. And if it makes no difference, well big deal, I can live just fine with a score in the 690's. One blemish on an otherwise-clear credit report is not a deal breaker. And I also am aware that there are other ways to improve my score leaving this one item aside. I have tried to keep my balances reasonable and the number of inquiries to a minimum.
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| | Monday, October 09, 2000 - 05:41 am Kristi Judgements are covered under "State Law" and vary from state to state. In NY a "paid judgement" is only listed on your credit report for 5 years from the date of the judgement's filing and not the date it was satisfied. I've already had one judgement role off of my credit reports because of this. My other one is due to role off in 18 months (2002). It was filed in '97 and paid in '99. So everyone please make sure you check out your particular state's laws before making those types of decisions.
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| | Monday, October 09, 2000 - 05:45 am Anyone have any idea what happens with a partially paid judgement? How do you get a CRA to notate this? Who do you dispute it against? I'm told that it's an all-or-nothing proposition. -Dave
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| | Monday, October 09, 2000 - 08:02 am Yes, Don's right. I was generalizing. Please check your state statutes. Thanks Don!
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| | Monday, October 09, 2000 - 09:27 am Don, Just so you know we are VERY responsible in giving out accurate info, We do post that disclaimer of states & statutes and a direct link to the consumers actual state so that they can get the exact date for their state. Thanks again Don for pointing that out. It is extremely important! So many people are often confused about state statutes vs. Federal. http://www.carreonandassociates.com/reportingtime.htm
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| | Monday, October 09, 2000 - 10:25 am This is really strange. So in NY, the judgment is reported to the CRAs for 5 years from the filing, but your VISA card or any other NON-judgment is reported for 7 years?
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| | Monday, October 09, 2000 - 10:27 am Dave, I've been told the same as you.
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| | Monday, October 09, 2000 - 02:36 pm Christine: The rule, I guess, is always 7 years or that states governing statute. I haven't had time to look up the NY statute but Don says it is 5 years from date filed not paid. In Calif it is 7 years from date satisfied (paid) not filed.
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| | Monday, October 09, 2000 - 05:14 pm I'm starting a new topic for the NY State imposed CRA reporting limitations to 5 years.
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| | Monday, January 08, 2001 - 09:32 pm Please forgive me if I seem like a complete idiot when it comes to credit issues... I value the credit-savy info and advice in this forum, so I appreciate any help. I recently reviewed my credit report, and noticed that I have a judgment for 221.00 on my report. I paid the judgment within 2 months of receiving it. The judgment was in May of 2000. I paid it in full June 30th. It recently showed up(just showed up Jan 2001) on all 3 bureaus as "status unknown" in the public records section of my report. This was not on my report in November, but now shows up as reported on 05-00. I paid the guy who placed the judgment and he was nice enough to even go to the courthouse and get a release of the judgment signed from the judge. I assume that this will remain on my credit for 7 years from the date I paid this. Could the guy who placed the judgment to begin with, ask the court to remove this completely, or does it stay regardless. This was just a major misunderstanding between my company and his. I could not show up for court to argue my case, because to be really honest.. I would have lost a major account if I had. Instead, I ended up losing way more than an account.. I lost my great credit rating. I honestly thought that I had heard the last of this ordeal. I thought once he went to the courthouse and had the judge sign the release of the judgment, that it was final. I have never had to deal with a judgment before, and would appreciate any advice. I would really like to know if this is going to greatly effect a future mortgage application. (or an auto loan)
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 04:45 am Dispute it. If the guy vacated the judgement it will probably vanish off your credit report within a few tries.
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 05:47 am Also, just an additional note. NY is probably the only state that does this, but a paid judgement only states on you report 5 years from the date it was filed (not the satisified date). Check your state to see if it is any different. As a public record item it will probably not go away, but it is always worth a try. Make sure they at least it report as paid. You'll need that for your mortage app. The car loan would probably just screw you on the rate, but no result in a denial.
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 01:08 pm It's my understanding that a judgment, whether paid or not, severely impacts on FICO Credit Scores. I did not know that a judgment could be vacated and removed. If possible, do whatever it takes to get that done.
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 08:00 pm How much do you think the judgment lowered my scores? Of course, it is showing as unpaid (221.00), although I have documentation of the release from the judge. Just a guess.. but if I DO get lucky and get it removed from my reports, how much higher will my scores be?
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| | Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 09:23 pm Nobody knows. It all depends on your entire reports. I think it's about as bad as a collection. Does anyone else have a better guess?
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| | Tuesday, January 16, 2001 - 05:04 am P.Rosa: But it certainly seems to me that a paid judgment is better than an unpaid charge off. It's completely dependent upon the age. In your case, a very recent PAID judgement affects your score MORE than a very old UNPAID charge-off. Whether a mortgage company will approve you with an unpaid, old charge-off (versus a paid, recent judgement) is a separate issue altogether. Advice: I read somewhere that I should just dispute the judgements as 'not mine'. For the hell of it, I disputed 1-3 judgements (depending upon the CRA), all unpaid, about 2.5 years ago. Guess what? ALL of them were removed within 30 days.
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