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     | Wednesday, December 27, 2000 - 06:19 pm  I'm VERY new to Epinions, just never had the time to read there. When I was REALLY pissed off at Thinklink, I checked Epinions and wrote my review at http://www.bayhouse.epinions.com/cmd-review-6C63-33C6DF63-3A41F169-prod5 Then the reviews of the Qspace credit reports made me spend some serious time there. I also tried to figure out their "Content Partner" (CP) program, the equivalent of an affiliate program, but strangely there's NO content on that CP page. Can't figure it out. Earn Revenue Note the "bayhouse" part in the above URL. As of Jan. 1, I think I'll get one dollar per 1,000 page views with banners. If somebody looks at 50 reviews, I guess I get 5 cents. I also get $1 for every new Epinions member who signs up through the bayhouse URL and posts an opinion, plus 10% of their earnings. I'm not big on MLMs. It really bothers me that people with 1,000+ page views per day will get $3 per 1,000 views, and $2 instead of $1 for new members. Of course I know why they pay more to the high traffic sites. They have a choice of putting up an E-pinions ad or some OTHER company's ad. Most of the Epinions members don't have commercial sites, so THEIR readers are worth only 33.3%. Quite frankly, I don't appreciate that at all. So far I earned 34 cents, under the current plan that pays $5 per 1,000 page views. You also get paid for the reviews. The published reviews are RATED by the other members. Earning on Epinions.com Epinions pays royalties, in turn they own your writings forever. That actually does NOT bother me, because company products/pricing/services change so fast, an old review is rather worthless. The royalties for my Thinklink review are 66 cents as of right now. Epinions promotes a "Web of Trust." The Web of Trust You can "trust" someone, that person will then show up on your profile as a person you trust. Your profile also shows who trusts you. I think that this is a really dumb idea. I don't know anyone who is an expert in everything. At the very least one should be able to SELECTIVELY trust someone by product or category. But much more important, I've seen several profiles promising return reviews and high ratings for being highly rated and trusted. There is some kind of hierarchy within the Epinion membership that I have yet to understand and I couldn't find the page on it anymore. Just did a search for "credit" and found this guy's opinion on secured credit cards. Here is what's in his profile, displayed to the left of his opinion: "Epinions ID: Almighty Interests: How to make $2,000 on Epinions (like me)!NEW!My Banner Buddies!CLICK HERE to get find out how to get your link on this page!BE SURE TO READ THEIR REVIEWS TOO!cate1956 * DoggieLove * ..." The list continues with countless names. It all reminds me of Ebay, with the "feedback" mania, only that this is a LOT worse! It is truly disgusting. I also experienced quite a few problems with the Epinions site functionality. Comments didn't show up till the next day, certain functions got a "try again later" type page. I've been unable to get comments and especially opinions to show up in the order of the DATE posted. VERY annoying. In most cases, I couldn't care less about a review that's a year old. I want to see the LATEST reviews. But the worst part is that Epinions stopped accepting new categories (products) as of November 14 because they estimated it would already take them a month to get caught up with existing suggestions. The site is so cramped with ads and banners, I don't understand why they don't make enough $$$ to maintain a functioning, up-to-date site. They also started offering all kinds of shopping services, adding to their income. I like the concept of Epinions, in theory, before I found out how it works and after a lot of fine print reading. In practice I see the "Trust Sluts" (as per an Epinion opinion) screwing up the system, of course all in the name of CASH earned. I've considered linking the companies at http://www.bayhouse.com/advertisers.shtml directly to the Epinions reviews, specifically MY reviews. I'm not sure anymore. Any feedback on Epinions is much appreciated. I'd rather see a true consumer site by Consumers Union or Nader, but I guess they got different priorities. Maybe they realized that it can't be done? Are there any other less commercial or at least better functioning sites similar to Epinions?
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| | Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 04:50 am Epinions.com -- this has the capability of permitting people to do to corporations what corporations do to people. It's like a "credit report" on companies that let you know what your chances are of having a good experience with the company. Unfortunately it has people, mainly the site admins, reviewing people's opinions. People that, in many cases, have never used the product or service say whether your opinion is valuable or not. I've written some pretty thorough reviews of a product or service indicating specific incidents that showed why I reviewed the product the way I did. Some of them were extremely thorough and complete but only got reviewed as "recommended" or some as "not recommended." Only one of my reviews was marked "highly recommended." We should develop a scoring system to indicate the likelihood that a person will have a problem with a company.
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| | Thursday, December 28, 2000 - 07:03 am That is pretty interesting. I have only been to Epinions a couple times to read the reviews. I didn't really pay attention to how the recommendations were given or that you could make money off of it. It seems like they are in a little bit of a catch-22. They offer people money as an incentive to drive people to their site but that same money is corrupting the opinions. Their are search engine sites that do a similar thing with admins reviewing other peoples link recommendations (dmoz.org and I think go.com). I don't think the admins get paid but they often only recommend their own sites. Shylock has a good idea, I'd love to see companies rated. I don't know how you could do it though. DSLReports.com does a similar thing by rating dsl providers. One problem with their ratings is that some companies don't pay attention to the site while others ask their customers to post a positive review about them (thereby driving that company's score up).
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| | Saturday, December 30, 2000 - 02:50 pm Hi! I am new to this board, but somewhat of an oldtimer at Epinions. My Epinions profile page is here: http://creditexpert.epinions.com/user-netkat It is unfortunate that you pulled one of the "you hit my reviews and I'll hit yours" profile pages. This type of behavior is generally considered unethical and is looked down upon by the majority of Epinionators. There actually is quite a lot of expertise and excellent product reviews available on the site. It does take awhile to get your bearings and separate the wheat from the chaff. The object is that when people honestly rate reviews, the reviews will be placed in a hierarchy and the reviews most valued by the community should rise to the top. To make things more complicated, the Web of Trust comes into play. Those with large WOTs and Advisors status (being deemed an Advisor in a category lends more power to your ratings and reviews) tend to have their reviews come up more often. Example. I am an Advisor in Personal Finance and I have a very large WOT (over 850). If you go into the Personal Finance category and look in the member advice sections on credit, my stuff will most likely appear first on the list. In conjunction with the WOT, Advisor status, and ratings, there is also the Web of Distrust. When a member is distrusted by a large number of the Epinions community their stuff tends to sink to the bottom of the barrel. The idea is that the members can control the site content by utilizing their WOT, WOD, and ratings. Naturally, just like in the real world, things don't always work out the way we'd like them to.  But, all in all, Epinions is a pretty neat place. Yes, functionality issues crop up with some regularity, but problems are addressed within a reasonable timeframe. Anyway, this topic attracted my attention! To introduce myself, my name is Kat and I work in credit card banking. I have a website here: http://creditexpert.tripod.com/home.htm and I am very active on Epinions and some credit card boards. I look forward to exploring this board and participating. Kat
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| | Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 11:38 am Kat, This type of behavior is generally considered unethical and is looked down upon by the majority of Epinionators. That's it? There are no consequences? Can it be that this guy really makes $2,000/month? How much do YOU earn at Epinions?
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| | Sunday, December 31, 2000 - 12:40 pm He was referring to his earnings over the tenure of his account, not in one month. I don't believe anyone can make anywhere near $2,000 per month with the current compensation structure. Epinions management takes somewhat of a hands off approach in terms of content control. It's up to the community to control the content for the most part. What actually will earn a person more than the meager $.01 to $.03 per member click is the "Income Share". This is allocated on a monthly basis with some kind of secret formula (I'm not kidding) that has to do with (we think) usefullness, being highly rated by trusted members, nonmember hits, one of the first written in that category and who knows what else. Income Share is distributed every month. So, your reviews are working for you even after you have written them and they have long rolled off your profile page. The other part of this equation, is that Epinions can become quite addictive. Kat http://creditexpert.tripod.com/home.htm
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| | Monday, January 01, 2001 - 11:35 am Kat, Epinions management takes somewhat of a hands off approach in terms of content control. It's up to the community to control the content for the most part. So, why aren't you "controlling" the net sluts? Looks to me like you are ignoring, NOT controlling. And looking at your profile, I see NUMEROUS ads and references hyping the Epinions income opportunities. How much did YOU earn the last 3 months?
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| | Monday, January 01, 2001 - 12:43 pm Hi Christine, First off, I only have one link to join Epinions on my profile page. Any other links are default ads that are placed there by Epinions. We only have control over so much of the profile page. I do have a link to an article I wrote on how to make money with the Income Share program. This is intended to assist members. If you are referring to my home page, which is a nonEpinions page, yes, I have many links to Epinions. I think it's a great site. Secondly, I do work to control content by utilizing the tools given to me by Epinions: my WOT, WOD, and ratings. I also actively report abuse when I come across it. Thirdly, I am not confortable discussing what I earn either from my online or offline activities on a public board. Suffice it to say, that I feel I am being adequately compensated or I would not be continuing to participate in the site. Additionally, I get a lot of personal enjoyment from my participation on Epinions. If someone is interested in simply making money, there are a lot easier ways to do it than Epinions. If someone enjoys writing, and enjoys evaluating products and services and expressing his/her opinion, it's a great community. On a personal note, I feel somewhat unwelcome on this board. I'm not sure what I've done to provoke this kind of reaction. If I have stepped into some kind of private posting board, I apologize. Kat http://creditexpert.tripod.com/home.htm
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| | Monday, January 01, 2001 - 06:31 pm Kat, you probably aren't used to any scrutiny or tough questions, considering your "credit expert" status and HUGE following at Epinions. We don't roll out the red carpet for anyone just because of their "credit expert" status. The BayHouse Forum is a PUBLIC consumer forum. Unlike the other FAKE consumer credit forums on the net, the BayHouse Forum is NOT a marketing ploy. It's a place to post and learn what corporate does NOT want the general public to know, as well as a place for people to get more than the shallow typical radio show/newspaper "personal finance expert" type answer. EVERYBODY is welcome to post here subject to very few rules: No spam, no marketing, ONE ad per commercial site/service/product, no corporate propaganda, and no bull. It's really pretty simple. Sometimes legislation, politics, and all kinds of topics are discussed and argued. Shylock is a regular pro-corporate contributor who many would rather see banned. He learned how to walk a fine line, and as long as he contributes USEFUL and ACCURATE info I don't have a problem with him. Regardless of Shylock's political and pro credit scoring views, he IS an expert on credit and credit scoring who took the time to get some answers from Fair Isaac directly to share here with everyone else. I appreciate that very much. But I also have to say that if there was ANOTHER poster like Shylock I probably couldn't take it! I have always encouraged professionals to provide a detailed profile with links to their sites. I can't recall anyone using a signature or URLs in their postings though. That's pretty lame, but it also is a statement in itself. In this particular topic I'm looking for reviews and comments on Epinions. I much appreciate your postings, you have certainly confirmed my perception that Epinion ratings and opinions are earnings driven. You don't want to say how much Epinion pays you, and it certainly is your right NOT to disclose those earnings. It's also interesting to see a "secret formula" used to determine how much people get paid at Epinions. Speaking of secret formulas, do you have an opinion published on FICO Credit Scoring? Also, I did a search on Epinions today for the CCCS and found nothing. That's another big problem with the Epinions functionality, I give the search capabilities a 2 on a scale of 10. And for literally hours now, I couldn't get through to Epinions at all. Are they drowning in their marketing success?
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| | Thursday, January 04, 2001 - 06:05 pm Kat, If your WOT was your FICO, you'd have one hell of a FICO score! Drowning in snow, looking for a TROPICAL island to claim... somewhere south of Prudhoe Bay, maybe NOME, lol
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 12:56 pm What I find interesting is that she's dolling information about credit repair, and she recommends going to CCS. AMAZING!!!! Kat- I think things can be harsh here are well, an open forum can only enhance the usefulness of the information to be found here, but notice Christine didn't delete your message. It's there for all to see, so she's not repressing anything you wrote. Now, when I first read what Christine wrote to you, I was offended myself, but then I followed up and read some of the stuff you wrote. Some of the stuff you wrote will actually hurt people's credit scores, and you're recommending they do it. I now agree with her remarks to you. She probably should have stated what she found to be untrue, but the fact of the matter stands: You are claiming to be an expert in credit repair, and you're giving out bad information. Looking at your e-pinions score, people trust what you have to say. There's a lot of responsibility that goes along with that, and based on your article of repairing credit, I too would say you're a fraud. I hope you don't take that too harshly, because it wasn't meant that way. It was meant in a way of stating that I feel you are acting in an irresponsible way, you should have at least done some research before writing your article. -Dan
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| | Wednesday, January 24, 2001 - 02:55 pm I've been meaning to update with some more info here, I just didn't have the time. The recent events regarding the Net 1st M/C are actually related and I'll try to briefly explain how the Web of Disinformation works. There are many disinformants like Netkat, the self proclaimed credit experts who work for major banks and card issuers. I read somewhere that she is an officer. Her job is communications and marketing. Netkat gets on Epinions and spreads the corporate propaganda. She is THE expert, and her credentials are her credit card related work. Netkat recommends cards because of the LOOKS of the plastic. She gets promotions after bringing a Magic 8 Ball to work. She knows how to rub with the right people and freely admits it. Rarely have I met anyone more shallow and repulsive. Netkat represents everything I hate about politics and corporate. Netkat refuses to disclose how much she makes off Epinions, but I doubt it's significant compared to her corporate compensation. Netkat has 7 kids, a full time corporate job, and I think she wrote literally 100s of Epinions. Netkat must be superwoman! I have no idea how one could take care of 7 kids, work fulltime, AND write all these Epinions. Unless of course that's done on work time. I suspect that her employer is very happy with Netkat's Epinions. Netkat also is a board monitor at cardratings.org, where the Net 1st card is recommended. From http://www.cardratings.org/crinfofrg.html : "New 12/00! We are pleased to introduce NetKat*, our second female board monitor. NetKat has extensive work experience in the credit card industry. She has been working in the card industry for over 9 years in the areas of customer service, telesales, and marketing. She is currently employed by a major credit card issuer. NetKat is also a Personal Finance Advisor on Epinions, one of our new partners, and she maintains a personal website. Welcome aboard, NetKat! * NetKat's name has been altered to protect her privacy." I'd really like to get her name and find out who she works for. Of course cardratings.org is another fake .org, recommending debt counseling services (great commissions!) Netkat never replied to my question. She's got nothing to say because all she knows is how to spread lies and myths to promote corporate profits and consumerism. Netkat is by far one of the most despicable and INFLUENTIAL people I know off. There must be hundreds of "netkats" spreading corporate propaganda and lies, she just happened to stumble into BayHouse, thinking she could make more Epinions $$$$ and add to her Web of Disinformation. Netkat certainly is not very bright, or she would have done just a little reading here and figured out that disinformation and marketing aren't welcome here. Netkat will of course be one of the recipients of the latest BayHouse Award.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 07:52 am Christine, I use epinions all the time but I would haven't never known what I learned from your postings. I didn't know they paid royalties. Even though I think that people wouldn't stop posting even if there were no royalties. I'd spend .66 in gas, time and energy cashing .66. So with you being in California I guess that doubles. (Smile) In recent weeks they have changed there site around alot. There database isn't as sharp as it was before. Before I could type in Lexus IS300 on the first search field on the start page to bring up Epinions. Not now, they need to check into that. I did notice something that supports your point. I always see the same people posting articles. Sometimes they post in detail, other times they don't. They always still seem to be highly recommended.(Or Whatever it is now) I love consumer opinion based sites though.. I like to hear about the experiences from someone that has nothing to loose or gain. One good one for computer retailers is www.ressellerratings.com The site is semi crude although it use to be worst but it is effective. You will definatly know after reading reviews there whether to deal with a company or not. I think it also will let you add a retailer yourself. Most people use that site in conjuction with pricewatch.com. Together you can save yourself a ton when you know exactly what you want. I'll look out for this NETRAT.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 11:43 am I use pricewatch.com a lot, but was disappointed that I couldn't find any external touch pads there. At Epinions I found the Cirque touchpad reviews and I am really happy with it. I'll definitely check out www.resellerratings.comThanks for the URL. I also enjoyed the Epinions State and National Park reviews a lot. I hadn't looked at Epinions for a few weeks and noticed some changes yesterday, but the site wasn't working well at all, again! Had better luck today, and here is a quote from Netkat's Epinions profile: I tend to be very analytical and decisive, so I definitely have some opinions on things. I'm proud to be the mom of 2 and stepmom of 5. I am an Officer for a major credit card bank working as a Communications Manager. (See how my Magic 8 Ball got me promoted!) I'm fortunate to have found a career which allows me to use words and actions to motivate others, my true calling. and If you have added me to your WOT, please be patient. I will come around to read your epinions! This is so important because high ratings by Netkat, with her advisor status, will weigh a lot and might increase the income. As of today, NetKat is trusted by: 1. serc 2. KateTPZ 3. redhowell 4. aliaaaaaa 5. uribou 836 other members 30 hidden members Netkat submitted 155 Epinions since Now. 99, that's at least one review every 3 days. Found Netkat's review of the Equifax report, with credit misinformation and finance company propaganda woven among good advice and info. 01/07/01 Your Equifax Credit Report: What You Need to Know. She complains that her Equifax report is too short, and I have to say I have always found the Equifax report to be the easiest to read, with just the facts on usually one page. I don't think longer is better. But that's a matter of opinion. Here's what really bothers me: Excerpt: Something Worth Considering When a creditor looks at your reports, it's not just current debt they're looking at, but the potential debt that exists as well. So, if you have any accounts you don't really use, you may want to consider closing them. Misinformation - i.e. a lie. Of course closing good accounts will lower the credit scores unless you have MANY other good accounts of the same type with at least the same length of history. Remember who Netkat works for. Obviously the credit card issuers want your scores to be low so they can charge you higher rates. You can have the Last Word Even if you can't get that negative item removed from your credit file, you can have a consumer statement attached to your credit file that will be included each and every time your report is accessed by a creditor. Will this do any good? Well, it can't hurt. If you have adverse items on your credit report due to extenuating circumstances, you might as well take advantage of this option. Another fine piece of propaganda. While it is true that you can have the last word, Netkat forgets to mention that nobody reads it! Since the advent of credit scoring, this consumer statement is totally useless. AND I have actually seen reports with those consumer statements and the account or data disputed had already dropped off. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! I really wouldn't bother (and never have) unless I planned on using the report to show to potential landlords or to get seller financing. Even in that case I think I can do a better job explaining in person, IF necessary. I think that a consumer statement draws attention to a problem, IF anyone ever reads it. Here is my advice: If the CRAs don't remove INCORRECT derogatory data after the FIRST dispute, go straight to court, Small Claims if you can't afford a lawyer. It worked for me, chances are, it will probably work for you. Sue the creditor who verified, or the CRA who refuses to investigate. You DO have the legal right to an accurate credit file. It is up to the creditor to prove that they are reporting correct data and the CRAs have a legal obligation to investigate disputes. What bothers me so much about Netkat is that she has the credentials, the huge following, and nobody ever questions a thing she says. The reviews are professionally written, and MOST of what she says is correct. That's why it is impossibly for the "average" person to recognize the corporate propaganda and misinformation.
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| | Thursday, January 25, 2001 - 03:24 pm Christine, I posted a message about HTML tag problem. Only mentioning it here because I know you'll see it today. regards, dave
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| | Saturday, January 27, 2001 - 08:25 pm Bravo Christine, Bravo!
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 08:22 am FYI- These guys are in trouble they just got another round of funding for $12 million last month but their burn rate is $1 million a month. They'll be gone by the end of the year. They had to lay off 20% of staff within the past few weeks too. There is no way they'll turn a profit by the end of the year with their business plan (advertising and affiliate programs alone do not support a bloated staff of 88 with $800 chairs) and stiff competition from better run sites.
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| | Thursday, February 15, 2001 - 11:50 pm That's very interesting. What are the better run sites?
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| | Thursday, March 01, 2001 - 09:59 am Askme.com is the biggest one right now. Although I consider their credit help about as good as Netkat and sometimes worse. Other sites are knowpost.com and abuzz.com. Abuzz and Askme are probably the most widely known. They are better RUN companies, from a business standpoint, I can't say whether their content quality is better. I have been very happy with askme.com's computer section but haven't done much anywhere else except to skim the content pages.
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| | Saturday, March 03, 2001 - 06:45 pm Thanks much, askme.com is quite interesting. Seems to function well, no money to be earned, few ads (that I notice.) They DO have a point system (rating) and if they did away with that it would be really good. One of the first questions I read in the credit section was an "expert" complaining about other experts ... There's little on credit scoring, and I've seen some "interesting" answers. Also went to Epinions. Hadn't been there in weeks, and thought maybe it's time to post my Qspace review. Well, the entire site is read only, you can't even log in. Supposedly they're "redesigning" but there's no date on the announcement and no date of anticipated completion of the redesign. Maybe they ran out of money ...
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