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     | Tuesday, November 09, 1999 - 01:51 pm  I received several preapproved credit card offers- I had to send in a little form- on it I made up an employer and income... Is that fraud? It was pre-approved... I am considering bankruptcy ( I am only 20 w/ no job) please help
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| | Tuesday, November 09, 1999 - 10:33 pm #1 It is my understanding that no employer can give financial information about you over the phone without your written consent. Given that, credit card companies are not going to call and ask to confirm your income. However, #2 They can call and confirm your employment (position, full-time or part-time). I have never personally had a credit card company do that. I have had companies call my home phone number listed on the application and confirm a pre-approved application (AmEx and First USA come to mind) was returned by me and not forged. #3 Yes, of course you committed fraud. You probably will not get caught though because your application was pre-approved and I have never personally had my employers called (I work in a relatively small office and would know) and don't know of anyone who has. #4 I am sorry to hear you are in such dire circumstances at such a young age. I wish I could give you some more advice, as it looks like you could use some. Hopefully some of the more experienced members of this "club" will be able to steer you straight.
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| | Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 08:46 am It might affect bankruptcy because, assuming you file a Chapter 7, there are grounds for creditors to object. One of them, 11 USC §523(a)(2)(B), allows a debt to be excepted from a bankruptcy discharge if fraud was used in obtaining credit. There is a deadline for creditors to bring such a complaint. It will be stated on the bankruptcy notice that you receive. They will not contact your employer to check employment. However, you will have to state employment on a public record, your bankruptcy schedules, and you may be asked about it when you go to court (creditor's meeting). The creditor might also schedule a deposition to ask. It is generally unlikely that a creditor catches it, and that likelihood is affected by many factors, such as who the creditor is, their policy on debts, who their attorney is, the amount of your debt, how long it took for you to run up the balance, when you last made a payment, and when you last used the credit card. There are other factors. I don't mean to confuse or scare you. Unfortunately, bankruptcy is a complex specialized field that people over-simplify because they generalize from the simple cases that they HEARD about. I reiterate that in most cases, if not your own, the creditors don't know and don't pursue it.
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| | Wednesday, November 10, 1999 - 09:07 am Yes it's fraud and fraud of this sort is a felony punishable by serious jail time. You've already told us you lied to gain financial advantage. I suggest that you don't spread this information around any further. Don't volunteer the fact that you committed a crime and memorize these words: "On the advice of counsel, I decline to answer that question." Then whenever someone asks you questions like, "When did you stop working at ABC Corporation" wheel out that phrase. In all likelihood nothing will happen, but why was it worth the risk? There are plenty of people in jail right now for credit card fraud. Personally I'm rooting to have more credit card frauds behind bars.
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| | Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 08:31 am I'm not sure about it being a felony punishable by serious jail time. Could be, but I'd have to see the authority. I'm sure that there is a distinction between civil and criminal fraud. I do know that credit card fraud is criminal, but isn't that when someone forges your name or unlawfully uses your card? That seems different from fraud-in-the-inducement, using a misrepresentation to trick someone into lending you money.
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| | Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 09:57 am The law is called FIRREA (Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery and Enforcement Act) which was passed in the wake of the massive Savings & Loans failures in the 1980's. Turns out now that anything that has the words fraud and bank is a federal crime. Not only is it serious jail time but it carries most of the penalties formerly only relegated to drug kingpins. Anything "tainted" by fraud can be seized. That means if you lie to get credit, use that credit to start a business, the business is profitable and you use money from that business to buy a house and a car when the fraud is uncovered the FBI can seize your house, your car and your business and you go to jail. Nice, eh? http://www.fear.org/chron/firrea.txt
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| | Thursday, November 11, 1999 - 07:37 pm Sean is right. It is a criminal offense to lie on a credit application. He is also right when he advises you to make no further mention of this anywhere. It seems you've learned from this experience and will not do anything like that again. I wish you luck with getting your life on track and I hope you will be able to laugh about this when you're 30. I found a good article on Consumerama called "Bankruptcy 101". It has a lot of useful info.
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