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     | Friday, June 23, 2000 - 09:50 am  I told an attorney that my account is past the Statute of Limiations for open-end accounts in New York State (4 years) based on the info I have read on this site. He is checking this out. I have called the NYS Attorney Generals office, NYS Banking, Federal Trade Commission, every one I can think of to get a government link or these Statutes of Limitations in writing, guess what, each place told me that they can't answer my question and that I should speak to an attorney!! The attorneys have the Statute of Limitations in writing, so, what publications are they reading?? I need to prove that this is true, that written contracts are 6 years, But, open-ended written contracts are 4 years. Please Help!!
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| | Friday, June 23, 2000 - 12:01 pm Good question. My supposition is that it is in the civil code of your state. My further supposition is that the reason you aren't getting answers is to keep mealy-mouthed bureaucrats out of hot water in the event they tell you an incorrect answer. While I can see there are legitimate reasons to avoid such responsibility, I think we all know that the bottom line is because of the lazy incompetent bureaucrats who man such positions, and they certainly don't want to actually work or be helpful. Theirs is not to reason why....but to just collect an undeserved paycheck and mark time till pension-ville. That being said, I WOULD NOT trust ANYTHING that such a person told me anyway. Part of an attorney's purpose in life is to be responsible for the information s/he gives a client (and of course, they are culpable for that information). So, bite the bullet, pay a lawyer so that you WILL KNOW!!
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| | Friday, June 23, 2000 - 03:36 pm Statute of limitations laws can be incredibly complex and are not nearly so black-and-white as most people think. The SOL chart that you're linking to from this site is somewhat over-simplified. Most states, including New York, have several different statutes of limitation for different situations. The SOL for enforcing a contract is different than the SOL for medical malpractice, which is different than personal injury, etc. New York law lists SOLs of 20 years, 10 years, 6 years, 4 years, 3 years, 2 years-6 months, and 1 year depending on the type of lawsuit. So that's probably why all of the agencies you called can't give you the answer you're looking for--they would need a whole bunch of information about your particular situation and contract. Best to trust your attorney on that one. As Lynn said, the attorneys are reading the civil code of your state, along with interpretations of that code, case law, etc. Most all of that information is available to the layperson on the Internet, if you really want to dig in. I haven't found any centralized site with all the states' laws on it. Some states have their laws on an official .gov site, others don't. Law schools have a lot of good information; also legal search engines such as findlaw. Cornell Law School has links to a lot of sites with state laws, including New York, at http://www.law.cornell.edu/states/listing.html The general SOL laws for New York are at http://assembly.state.ny.us/cgi-bin/claws?law=16&art=3 I didn't find any reference to a 4-year SOL for open accounts--doesn't mean it doesn't exist, only that I didn't find it. Having a different SOL for 'open accounts' confuses me--I think it doesn't exist in my state. I have (with an attorney) argued an SOL defense on a credit card debt and we used the 'written contract' SOL. But again, it's probably different in your state so see what your attorney says. Another note: Some states, including NY, have a law which is commonly referred to as a "borrowing statute." The exact wording and rules vary between states, but essentially it says that when a lawsuit is filed in your state for a 'cause of action' which accrued in another state, then the shortest SOL of the two states applies. I don't know if this would apply to your situation or not, but you may want to run it by your attorney. You didn't post any details of your situation, but I assume from your questions that you're being sued. I'm not an attorney and so can't give any legal advice, but I have 'been there' so if I can help at all just ask.
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| | Friday, June 23, 2000 - 04:14 pm First of all, why don't those government people give out the URL? And second, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I really wouldn't believe what just any lawyer has to say either. It amazes me continually how wrong they so often are. And good luck trying to sue a lawyer for giving out false info. Last night I was reading at the findlaw.com forum at http://boards.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/WebX.fcgi?13@^69108@.ef0db01 In response to someone complaining about his lawyer not informing him of important events that let to the dismissal of his case, somebody actually responded that he should have gone to the courthouse to look up the status of his case in the public records. Another person complained about double and over billing and missing credits for payments she had made, she also didn't get much sympathy. Another complained about the law firm also representing the opposing party WITHOUT disclosure, not even that is unethical. I'm sure if your lawyer gave you wrong info on the law, you'd be told that you should have looked it up yourself. Which really is your best bet for accurate info. Trouble is, I did a web search and have yet to find the code containing the NY statute of limitations for contracts. I DID find OTHER sites with the info, but not the code. That's really strange.
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| | Friday, June 23, 2000 - 08:08 pm Hadn't seen Rhonda's posting before mine, because I'd been looking for the info on the web for at least an hour. I think Rosemarie meant open-ended, as in revolving. NY State has a consumer site at http://www.consumer.state.ny.us/ and there is a whole bunch of stuff, but I couldn't find the SOL for loans. I can't see how SOLs can be so complicated. Does each credit card issuer get their own SOL? I hope not. A plain English summary with a link to the actual code would sure be nice. While we've had some people here who did not at all understand the FCRA (Tim comes to mind), those are definitely the exception. And while I was working on some post holes, I had time to think about that lawyer dilemma. In the last ten years I have spoken with exactly ONE person who had a very positive experience with her lawyer. He enjoyed picking up the phone and getting things done right then and there. And the creditors always paid his fee. Unfortunately he is now a judge. About 50% of the other lawyer experiences were neutral, the rest were nightmares. There are nearly 4,000 postings here, how many FCRA and debt negotiation lawyer referrals and recommendations do we have? None? I don't remember any. We've had discussions about lawyers, finding lawyers, and why lawyers aren't interested in FCRA cases. I hope there are FCRA lawyers who are the exception, just like Mitch is an exception and the only bankruptcy lawyer who cares enough about his clients and the quality of his work to read and post here. A good lawyer is even more difficult to find than a good real estate or mortgage broker.
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| | Saturday, June 24, 2000 - 06:09 pm Ok, I'll take one more stab at making it simpler, but statute of limitations laws ARE complex. There is no single SOL for loans--it depends on what kind of loan we're talking about. The SOL in New York for most contracts is 6 years. Mortgages are 10 years. Sales contracts are 4 years. I would assume that a credit card would be considered a contract and therefore subject to the 6 year SOL. However, as I said before, I'm not an attorney so don't take my word for it. Rosemarie didn't tell us what kind of an account it is--maybe it's a sales contract subject to the 4 year SOL. That's why she needs an attorney. The link to the New York State Laws on the statute of limitations in civil cases is: http://assembly.state.ny.us/cgi-bin/claws?law=16&art=3 Rosemarie was referring to the SOL table on the creditinfocenter site which she linked to from this site. That table says the SOL for "open ended accounts" in New York is 4 years, and it defines an open ended account as a credit card. I was not able to find that same definition in NY code (and I looked for more than 3 hours), but then again I'm not an attorney and I'm not from NY. As far as attorneys go, I agree with you that a good one who's knowledgable in consumer credit is nearly impossible to find. I couldn't find one when I needed one, so I settled for an attorney who was willing to do some research and to listen. I also did a lot of research on my own, and he was open to my input. Although I respected his opinions, it was after all MY case and therefore ultimately the decisions (ie: whether to settle or fight) were mine. And I'm also much happier being an INFORMED consumer. ;-) I learned a lot from my attorney, I believe he learned a few things from me, and our case came out well. Just my 2 cents...
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| | Sunday, June 25, 2000 - 12:08 pm Rhonda, thanks so much for taking so much of your time to help us out and sharing your experiences. Have to say that I look at the code and can't follow it at all. I can read the FCRA and figure it out, although I might have to read it several times. Looking at the NY code leaves me wondering what the hell is wrong with the people who wrote it. And apparently there is no "plain English" version. You searched, I searched, I don't know what to say. I guess the State of New York wants to keep their residents as ignorant as possible. I find that very disturbing.
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| | Monday, June 26, 2000 - 04:16 am Actually, New York's code isn't much different than any other state's that I've read. I think that's what keeps the attorneys employed!
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| | Monday, June 26, 2000 - 08:25 am Thank You, everyone, for responding to my questions, my account is indeed a credit card account that I am settling, with the issuing bank's attorneys. I have read that simple contracts (retail installment agreements) are 4 years. I do plan on paying the amount that was charged off in 1997 of $3675.00-no problem. I was looking at the statute of limitations of 4 years from last activity date of 07/96 so I could negotiate a better credit rating, not the amount. The bank's attorney's already served me with a summons and I answered that I would pay the $3675.00 in 3 payments over 3 months. They were trying for $5664.00 (interest from 1997-2000). The bank agreed to take this amount in full settlement. This account will drop off my husband's and my credit reports in 02/2004. I didn't want a judgement to be entered, that stays on an additional 7 years, we just have to wait 3 years as it stands now. My husband's chapter 7 also comes off in 2004,so it doesn't matter whether the bank gives us an R1 or R5 status. Yes this account was opened after the bankruptcy and I told my husband we couldn't afford that brand new car at the time, but boys will be boys and he did work two jobs and go to school at night at the time and said it would be ok, until he decided 4 months into the loan, that he didn't want to work 2 jobs and go to school, so he quit his weekend bartending job. and we had to decide whether to pay the credit card or the car. Any suggestions as to a formula to a high credit score? for instance, do the average high scoring people have 2-4 credit cards? a payement history of how long? employment history with a company for how many years, etc, I know that these scores vary by individual, but, there must be a common denominator somewhere, these high scoring people must have something in common. If there are 20 million people, there can't be 20 million formulas, could there? Rosemarie
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| | Monday, June 26, 2000 - 11:06 am It sounds like the first step to you getting your credit under control is losing your husband! He decides to buy a car you can't afford then 4 months later decides he doesn't feel like paying on the credit card anymore. Niiiiice. The first and most important step to having good credit is paying what you owe and paying it on time. If difficulties come up such as a serious illness or involuntary loss of a job then you should have enough cash and credit reserves to see you through this period of time without becoming more than 30 days behind. No amount of jiggling with your number of credit cards is going to overcome the difficulties created by getting overextended on debt, filing bankruptcy, and going straight out and getting overextended on debt again to the point that you can't meet your financial obligations.
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| | Monday, June 26, 2000 - 12:14 pm And paying all your bills one month ahead with CASH will get you WHAT score?
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| | Monday, June 26, 2000 - 04:53 pm I didn't mean to make my husband sound bad, he is a wonderful man and works very hard and I do also, He has a gift for making money and I have a gift for spending it;-) we just wanted to have nice things and didn't think about the consequences. If we were going to get in trouble with the debt, I am just glad that it happened in our twenties and we still have enough time and make alot more money now to take care of our debt. We tried a couple of years ago to pay off this card and the bank wouldn't even talk to us. I don't understand why the bank didn't work with us in 1997 when we owed more and is now willing to settle the account for less, it doesn't make sense. We could have paid them years ago. Our debt problems started back in those college days when every bank was throwing credit cards at you, how could we resist? We are older now and I am grateful that we can fix our money problems now, some are not that fortunate. In three years we will buy our first home (because we have to wait for the chapter 7 to drop)we could buy one now, but why pay higher rates, 3 years will fly by!, we are 34 and 35 years old, that isn't too late is it? Rosemarie
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| | Monday, June 26, 2000 - 08:38 pm Rosemarie, glad to see your husband isn't a deadbeat and that you're doing well now. If you want to buy a house be sure you review ALL your credit reports and compare them with the report at http://www.bayhouse.com/bkcreditdispute.html
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| | Tuesday, June 27, 2000 - 03:02 am Thanks Christine, I have been cleaning our credit reports for the last year and will probably continue to monitor them for the next two years. The only problem now is the Capital One account listed in my other messages, in 3 years it will be gone. Now the question I have is , my husband and I are authorized users on our families account, me on my sister's 2 accounts and my husband on his mom's 2 accounts. Their (their)-(I could never spell this right!)accounts are excellent and want to know if we should remove our authorized status or leave it on our reports. I am sure the issuing banks will remove the entries upon our request, but is it better for us to leave them or will hurt us in the future??
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