     Shy Guy (Shyguy) | Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 05:48 am 
I am disputing five debts that were discharged in my Chapter 7 that are still reporting past due or delinquent. (It's been six months since discharge, and this inaccuracy has already cost me one secured Visa.) How are these items listed during the dispute process?
Also, has anyone here been able to get a credit-card issuer to reverse its decision after getting the credit bureau to send a corrected credit report? |
| Anonymous1 (Anonymous1) | Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 07:21 am
I am about 6 months removed from a ch7 discharge and I have a bunch of idiots still reporting me as delinquent (one has the gall to tell me they NEVER received anything from the courts, so therefore I am S.O.L.). I am going to wait until January and then I plan to call my attorney and sue these idiots. I offer to send the discharge form (a copy of course) and they say too bad, we will look at it and decide. Even Pac Bell (which I KNOW was notified because their collection agency stopped the calls after I filed and haven't called since) keeps reporting me (which is hurting my ability to rent a better apartment). I think these jerks don't care and feel it is their right to mess with us.
P.S.- I did get an unsecured card after discharge. I recommend FCNB. |
| Shy Guy (Shyguy) | Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 10:33 am
Anonymous1,
That's pretty similar to what happened to me. All of the creditors who are still reporting me as delinquent stopped contacting me just a couple of weeks after I filed. No phone calls, no bills, nothing. Yet they refuse to acknowledge the debts were discharged.
Heck, a couple of them even transferred me to their bankruptcy departments when I called to inquire why they weren't reporting correctly. One told me it didn't have to report correctly unless the credit bureau began an investigation.
So now my attorney is handling it. I should know by the end of November how successful she is at Round 1.
ShyGuy
PS -- I applied for a FCNB secured MasterCard last night. The rep couldn't do an instant approval over the phone, but I can call in a couple of days to see if I was approved. |
| June Logan (Junel) | Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 11:04 am
Hey Shy Guy don't apply for anymore credit right now! Everytime you do there is an inquiry on your report and that brings your score down. All you need to do is call the CRA and ask for a dispute form. Send a copy of your discharge papers showing the items included in your chap 7 and they have 30 business days to remove them. When you get your updated credit report and it is accurate, then apply for the cards. Let me know if you need anymore help! |
| Christine Baker (Admin) | Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 03:10 pm
June, FCNB seems to be approving even people who haven't even discharged yet. They're one of the better deals out there for people with a bankruptcy. |
| June Logan (Junel) | Wednesday, October 25, 2000 - 05:42 pm
That's great then. He can start rebuilding credit right away. But he still should take care of the errors on his report. |
| Shy Guy (Shyguy) | Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 05:45 am
Christine and June,
My attorney is taking care of the errors on my report, and I have applied for an FCNB secured MasterCard. Unfortunately, I did it over the phone, which seems to lengthen the application process. I should have just sent in an application with a deposit. Does anyone know if they can expedite the delivery of a card?
What irks me is these creditors know my debts were discharged, but they are continuing to report incorrectly. I qualified for the secured card I applied for, but the credit report mistakes prevented me from getting it. Does you think it's reasonable to ask the credit bureau to send a copy of my corrected report to the credit-card issuers and then ask the bank if it would reconsider its decision based on the corrected report?
Thanks,
Shy Guy
PS - If I had had a BK attorney like Mitch, I don't think I would have had these credit report problems. But my BK attorney made all of these promises, got his money and then seemed irritated if I called him with any questions. For example, I didn't even receive a copy of my filing. So now I have a credit-repair attorney. |
| June Logan (Junel) | Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 06:42 am
You can request that the CRA send your updated report to every co you've applied for credit with in the past 6 mos. They are required to do so. This is what I hate to hear. These attys who take money and make promises and DON'T follow through. You can fix this on your own without them. It takes time and persistence but IT CAN save money. Also, only use these cards now to rebuild credit. In the future, pay balances off each month. |
| Anonymous1 (Anonymous1) | Thursday, October 26, 2000 - 07:16 am
Hey Shy Guy,
My attorney was cool, but she also seems a little annoyed when I call with questions. I bet it's due to the fact they take on so many clients and when one is done it's on to the next and so on...
FCNB actually approved me for an unsecured card, believe it or not...You should have applied on the Internet. Oh well...
Good luck,
A1 |
| Senator (Senator) | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 02:04 am
I would caution everyone about supplying information to the CRAs including a list of debtors discharged in bankruptcy. Once that list is supplied, bingo--they have verification and you'll have an awful time getting any bad item listed, deleted when challenged. That is my dilemma with Discover. It still is being reported as 3000 outstanding. It was discharged. My attorneys said not to supply them with the list as that makes the cra job too easy. However, everytime I challenge it, the cra says verified. I have temporarily halted the atty's efforts while reorg is ongoing but don't know what to do about big "D" for discover. |
| Shy Guy (Shyguy) | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 07:24 am
Senator,
Discover is listed discharged for me. My attorney also said to never send anything to the CRAs for exactly the reasons you list.
Did your attorney try to threaten Discover directly? I thought it was Discover's responsibility under federal law to report correctly. The CRAs just report what Discover tells them.
PS -- During all of my credit problems, Discover was by far the best creditor for me to deal with. The reps were always professional, courteous and understanding. It's the only creditor I'm considering voluntarily repaying because: 1) they say after six months (though I'm sure it will take longer) they will consider giving me a card again; and 2) I only owe them $400, and they always treated me well. Has anyone been successful getting a new Discover card going this route, and if so, how long did it take? |
| Christine Baker (Admin) | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 10:55 am
Senator, what am I not getting?
Don't we WANT the CRAs to have notification that the debts are discharged?
As far as getting an account deleted that's reported as "included in bankruptcy," WHY would you want that? Especially if it's correct. As far as I know it doesn't make ANY difference whether you discharge 1 or 100 accounts.
Do I understand correctly that the attorneys don't want you to notify the CRAs so that you instead pay them?
I think the time to pay an attorney is AFTER you sent the list of discharged debtors to the CRAs and they CONTINUE to incorrectly report. As long as you have the certified mailing receipt, how could you NOT win in court when it comes to paying the attorney fees?
I would think that any half way competent attorney would get the CRAs to pay his fees WITHOUT court action.
I.e. the attorney writes to the CRAs: "As per the enclosed USPS certified mailing receipt you received my client's list of discharged debts on .... Enclosed is your credit report still showing debt ..... as currently delinquent, with an outstanding balance of ... etc. etc.
Please immediately correct these accounts to be listed as "included in bankruptcy" with a 0 balance and a date no later than the discharge.
Attorney fees due by ...: $150
Should payment NOT be received by ... , or should you continue to report these accounts incorrectly, additional legal fees will be incurred at $300 per hour.
Sincerely ...."
There should also be a strong statement about the client's inability to do business, damages, etc.
If the CRAs DON'T pay, SUE! How could one lose this case? If they still don't report right, sue for DAMAGES!
What kind of incompetent attorneys are these credit attorneys?
What the hell are they doing?
Really pisses me off. Can you tell? 
I do think that the CRAs and probably many judges feel that it is the consumer's responsibility to handle the initial notification. I don't agree with this, but I'm just being realistic.
Re. Discover: Shy Guy, do a search for reaffirmation. And please start a new topic on Discover if you still consider it. |
| Shy Guy (Shyguy) | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 02:33 pm
Christine,
You don't want to send the CRAs your bankruptcy papers because that verifies your BK. It's up to them to verify negative info. If you have a good attorney, you might even be able to get the BK deleted before your 10 years are up. It's hard, but it's been done. If you send your paperwork to the CRAs it's a lot harder. |
| Shylock (Shylock) | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 03:45 pm
You should always send a copy of your discharge papers to the credit reporting agency. You may say that it's up to them to verify negative info but a bankruptcy isn't as negative as you think.
Nor do they have one huge file on which they keep all correspondence from the millions of creditors they have in their files for 10 years. It's no bar to disputing it later.
Although I should point out that it's not ethical to dispute information that you know is accurate. It takes time away from the CRA people working on those items that are inaccurate and that's not cool. |
| Christine Baker (Admin) | Friday, October 27, 2000 - 04:50 pm
Yeah, I have to say that I am definitely NOT a big fan of disputing CORRECT info.
So many people have TREMENDOUS problems and EXPENSES because of all these incorrect accounts.
As a matter of fact, I have had clients pay me $75/hour to dispute this INCORRECT data, which the CRAs then refused to investigate BECAUSE of all those frivolous disputes. And I really resent that.
It's one thing to try to get something off the credit by a one-time dispute with the CRAs, in hopes of the creditor being out of business or just not verifying. I certainly don't object to consumers or attorneys contacting creditors directly to negotiate the removal of derogatory accounts.
But I really don't see the point of spamming the CRAs with frivolous disputes, nor have I found it to be effective.
Shy guy wrote: You don't want to send the CRAs your bankruptcy papers because that verifies your BK. It's up to them to verify negative info.
How difficult do you think it is to verify a bankruptcy? It's a PUBLIC record, RECORDED at the courthouse!
If you have a good attorney, you might even be able to get the BK deleted before your 10 years are up. It's hard, but it's been done.
Where? How? Why? Never once have I been able to verify the removal of a public record item.
I consider these efforts about as stupid as saving 40 cents in taxes by wasting a dollar. I am aware that there are attorneys who stole court files to prevent verification of bankruptcies.
Not only should those attorneys have to do some serious jail time, but it's beyond me why court files aren't backed up on microfiche. Is this the year 2000?
And those millions of frivolous dispute spams resulted in legislation allowing the CRAs to refuse to investigate disputes. Thank you very much!
One of my main objectives is to get the CRAs and creditors to PAY for their mistakes and negligence.
Maybe part of the deal will have to be to have consumers and attorneys PAY for frivolous disputes. |
| Erik (Erik) | Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 05:50 am
I don't blame people for trying to improve their credit scores by disputing correct information. The credit scoring system isn't just not fair because the credit reports have many inaccuracies. It's also not fair because they don't take into account a person's entire financial picture.
For people like me with a half-way decent income, paid for car (no loan), low rent (which is always paid on time), and savings. Does not having a credit card really mean that someone is financially irresponsible? I've always thought that they were pretty much a waste of money. A credit card's importance is magnified because it's one of the only variables in a person's financial history the the CRAs take into consideration. Why is a $300 collection treated about the same as a $30,000 collection?
If I understood seven years ago as much as I do now about the credit system then I would have had no problem in getting a good credit score. Believe me I would be happy to pay triple for what I owe for a clean report. But paying at worst can reset your date of last activity. At best you have to negotiate and make creditors give you in writing a statement that they won't report you. What is the best option? For me it's dispute first, negotiate second. If you think people like me are part of the problem that is your opinion but I think I've been screwed too. |
| Christine Baker (Admin) | Saturday, October 28, 2000 - 12:27 pm
Credit Scoring is a totally different story and has nothing to do with the actual reports and disputes.
What it really comes down to is this:
When somebody steals MY wallet, would you object to me then stealing YOUR wallet?
Is that ok with you, just because I've been robbed?
Of course it's not, but only because it's YOUR wallet. If I stole some little old lady's purse, you couldn't care less.
I realize, that's just how people are. |
| Shy Guy (Shyguy) | Monday, October 30, 2000 - 05:54 am
Christine, I don't plan to dispute my BK. I have too big a job getting the incorrect info fixed. And I'd rather spend my time rebuilding my credit to show I learned from my mistakes.
But the credit reports already list my Chapter 7 as discharged -- and most of my debts are already listed as discharged -- so the CRAs know all about it. And I'll have to check my discharge letter again, but I don't recall it listing what debts were discharged. If it doesn't, what does it prove to the CRAs?
So I don't see why I should send the CRAs any info. It's their job to verify, not mine. Plus, I'm going to trust my attorney on this. She says don't send, so I'm not sending.
My beef isn't with the CRAs anyway -- it's with the creditors. They are the ones reporting incorrectly. They also know the debts were discharged, but they refuse to acknowledge it. On a monthly basis, they continue to report wrong. |
| Shylock (Shylock) | Monday, October 30, 2000 - 02:10 pm
Well, you can have a beef with your creditors all day long but you can't sue them. They are immune to lawsuits except by the FTC or your state attorney general.
This, of course, is the drawback to regulation. Loopholes are always installed that defeat the stated goal. It allows the politicians to stand up at election time and claim that they've done such great things for consumers without actually accomplishing anything.
Then the next election cycle they can "fix" the old legislation by installing different loopholes and closing the old ones. They then stand up to pound their chest again claiming to have done a great thing for consumers. It's a never ending cycle of vote buying. |
| Shy Guy (Shyguy) | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 05:40 am
OK, let me get this straight: You can sue the credit bureaus for including incorrect info that they get from the creditors, but you can't sue the creditors for reporting the incorrect info? |
| Shylock (Shylock) | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 04:03 pm
That's correct. The Fair Credit Reporting Act specifically prohibits you from suing creditors that provide inaccurate information to the credit reporting agencies. Only the FTC or a state attorney general can sue.
Isn't the Fair Credit Reporting Act just the best thing ever? |
| Christine Baker (Admin) | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 11:30 pm
Shy guy wrote: So I don't see why I should send the CRAs any info. It's their job to verify, not mine. Plus, I'm going to trust my attorney on this. She says don't send, so I'm not sending.
That's your choice. I for one got literally 5,000 things I'd rather be doing instead of disputing incorrectly reported accounts.
And there must be 500,000,000 things I'd rather spend my money on instead of paying attorneys.
And, there are VERY FEW people I trust, a credit repair attorney would not be one of the few. |
| Don (Don) | Thursday, November 02, 2000 - 05:49 am
Just one short point. Although the FCRA says that you cannot sue the creditor for providing incorrect info to the CRAs. That does not mean that you cannot sue / arbitrate your creditors if they are not correct with your billing, dates etc. It just means that you cannot use the FCRA and the relationship that they have with the CRAs.
They do still have liability, just not the responsibilty to report to the CRAs correctly. |
